tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post1550618517310331601..comments2023-10-20T08:32:14.040-04:00Comments on Heaving Dead Cats: Conversations with Roger The christian 1 - The BasicsAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12653141544095753595noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-71227140033635877462009-05-12T01:57:13.000-04:002009-05-12T01:57:13.000-04:00As I am not as patient as you, I will say that the...As I am not as patient as you, I will say that the "all atheists were hurt by somebody, and that's why they don't love god anymore" meme is getting tiresome.<br><br>I had a hard time believing as a child. One day I had to admit the whole god thing didn't make any logical sense at all, and that was that.Personal Failurehttp://foreverinhell.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-27001002823684095782009-05-12T01:58:14.000-04:002009-05-12T01:58:14.000-04:00Oh boy, here we go again......Oh boy, here we go again......Buffyhttp://gaytheistagenda.lavenderliberal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-33856878080679264802009-05-12T09:05:34.000-04:002009-05-12T09:05:34.000-04:00If in fact, atheists do wish to stop the world fro...<i>If in fact, atheists do wish to stop the world from “believing” does that not make them a religion in and of themselves?</i><br><br>Since I love pointing out logical fallacies:<br><br>If, in fact, public transportation advocates do wish to stop the world from "owning cars" does that not make them a car company in and of themselves?Gedshttp://accidental-historian.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-39387922254261749652009-05-12T09:10:25.000-04:002009-05-12T09:10:25.000-04:00I actually have a question for Roger. These atheis...I actually have a question for Roger. These atheists that you know, who try "twice as hard" to deconvert people, who mentioned religion first? Them or you?<br><br>I'm an atheist, as are many of my friends. None of us, and I mean NONE, have tried to deconvert anyone, and the only people we've argued it with brought the subject up themselves.<br><br>I agree with Neece, you've got it backwards.MaleficVTwinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-16043770702868118762009-05-12T09:23:53.000-04:002009-05-12T09:23:53.000-04:00Yes, you're right, PF, it's very old. It&#...Yes, you're right, PF, it's very old. It's as simple as that, really. I gave up on Santa and the Easter Bunny when I was a kid too. There's really no difference. It's all made up.Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-47703691790412557352009-05-12T09:26:54.000-04:002009-05-12T09:26:54.000-04:00I know, Buffy, I'm sorry.I know, Buffy, I'm sorry.Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-37020837511858363662009-05-12T09:28:48.000-04:002009-05-12T09:28:48.000-04:00Did I miss that line? Damnit. Well, thanks for poi...Did I miss that line? Damnit. Well, thanks for pointing it out, Geds. It's quite a silly fallacy.Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-46883283165476390202009-05-12T09:34:22.000-04:002009-05-12T09:34:22.000-04:00Oh, Malefic! What an EXCELLENT point! Thank you! T...Oh, Malefic! What an EXCELLENT point! Thank you! That is SO TRUE. I've NEVER brought up religion to a believer. But they have brought it up to me countless times! Even then, if it's inappropriate, I keep my mouth shut. (like at easter dinner at my Aunt and Uncle's house, who I respect)Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-21180993163778688842009-05-12T11:57:47.000-04:002009-05-12T11:57:47.000-04:00Roger wrote, "I don’t believe in religion bec...Roger wrote, "I don’t believe in religion because really, to say a person is 'christian' means that they have a personal belief and relationship with God."<br><br>While this *is* a bit of a non-sequitur, I think he's trying to say that his personal relationship with G-d/Jesus is far more important to him than being part of a church, or than any organized system of beliefs. Hence, he doesn't really believe in "religion" <i>per se</i> - just G-d. <br><br>I could argue that this distinction is essentially meaningless, since his religion clearly emphasizes a personal relationship with G-d/Jesus... but I don't really know that such is the case. He might belong to one of the more church/community-oriented variants of Christianity, in which setting his would be an unusual view. Almost certainly not heretical, but unusual. <br><br>On the other side of the table, Neece wrote: "...basically I was a good little christian until about age 12 when I started to see the blatant hypocrisy of the church." This is, to my eyes, a violation of the third (and possibly the second also) of the ground rules that you began your post with: it's not respectful, and it could be construed as a personal attack. "Good little Christian" sounds extremely condescending, and "until.. I started to see the blatant hypocrisy of the church" is a pretty direct accusation of Christianity at large. I'm not sure you meant it that way, but that's how it comes across, at least to me. <br><br>And I *have* met atheists who see any mention of religion as an opening to mercilessly attack and ridicule other people's beliefs - under the apparent assumption that their victims obviously haven't put any thought into their beliefs, since otherwise they wouldn't believe anything so glaringly ridiculous in the first place. Obviously, these are not the majority of atheists, agnostics, or even pagans - but they are out there. And the obnoxious minority does tend make more of an impression than the reasonable majority. ::shrugs::<br><br>Michael MockMichael Mockhttp://www.mockwriting.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-73325991160164492242009-05-12T13:10:27.000-04:002009-05-12T13:10:27.000-04:00I was going to comment on that religion v. christi...I was going to comment on that religion v. christian line. I have actually heard that claim before. I just assumed it was just an attempt to distance oneself the "crazy" stereotype of religion. <br><br>I like how he follows up by saying Atheism is a religion though.Charlesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-61741423250232065052009-05-12T16:03:16.000-04:002009-05-12T16:03:16.000-04:00I say go for it! It's always nice to have an o...I say go for it! It's always nice to have an open dialogue with someone who can discuss this topic without getting upset of inflammatory. I have a few people in my life that happily do that and have beliefs that are polar opposites from mine. ;-)<br><br>I'm rather jealous, though. I never get people asking ME to have such dialoges on the internet. Come to think of it, I never get people knocking on my door, either.<br><br>I wonder if it's my breath??!? ;-)Dan Gilberthttp://www.rationalitynow.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-72460174777849185162009-05-12T18:09:45.000-04:002009-05-12T18:09:45.000-04:00"atheists do wish to stop the world from '..."atheists do wish to stop the world from 'believing'"<br>Incorrect, that's silly. I don't care if you... ahem... believe. Believe whatever the hell you want. But don't sit there and force your beliefs on others. And I'm talking here like passing laws against homosexuals, or banning condoms... These are forcing your beliefs on others, and that's unacceptable. And don't try to argue opposite here, if condoms weren't banned, nobodies forcing you to use them, and that's just it. And if stopping you from believing is a way to do it, okay, but it doesn't have to go that far.<br><br>"to say a person is 'christian' means that they have a personal belief and relationship with [g]od."<br>Nay, that is also incorrect. And I've come across this many a times... A lot of 'Christians' don't seem to get it that you can believe in god, without being a christian. In fact, there are far more pretty and far more loving religions out there than Christianity. Religions such as pantheism and panentheism along with many others which have roots in humanism. Of course, these religions don't have a booming god that casts people to hell who don't believe... or even throw out laws and dictate who is good and evil. Many 'Christians', don't even realize they aren't Christians anymore but more aligned to being a humanist.<br><br><br>On a completely unrelated note, OMG, I only have 2 minutes to edit this or I'll never be able too!<br>...<br>That's kind of... well, funny I guess. Why does it time you to edit your post? Hmmm...GMNightmarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-56542524377012113382009-05-12T19:02:54.000-04:002009-05-12T19:02:54.000-04:00Hi Michael,Thanks for giving us an idea of what Ro...Hi Michael,<br>Thanks for giving us an idea of what Roger was talking about with that sentence. It seemed totally contradictory to what he was saying everywhere else.<br><br>I disagree that me talking about my personal experience is meant to be offensive. I was a good little christian girl. I did find the church I was going to to be extremely hypocritical. Those are my experiences. I am not going to sugar coat everything I say just to spoon feed it to everyone to spare every person's feelings. That's unhealthy. If someone finds offense in my personal experiences, I can't help that. Some people will find offense in anything and everything that they disagree with, and in fact go out of their way to be offended.<br><br>Like I said to Roger, there are people of all walks of life in every philosophical group. Sure there are some atheists who are more in your face than others, but certainly not all of us. Plus, if you're a christian, you might take a simple contradictory retort from an atheist as a huge attack. Just like maybe I am probably a bit sensitive about all the god talk I am subjected to every day. But you're right, the obnoxious and vocal minority makes a strong impression, and is very irritating.Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-41875885557250002642009-05-12T19:04:19.000-04:002009-05-12T19:04:19.000-04:00Yeah, it sounds fishy to me. I am still curious ab...Yeah, it sounds fishy to me. I am still curious about it, but I've noticed that Roger has not replied either through here or by email. So maybe we'll never know!Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-42281074534201823622009-05-12T19:05:54.000-04:002009-05-12T19:05:54.000-04:00Well, I tried but haven't heard from Roger. So...Well, I tried but haven't heard from Roger. So maybe I have bad breath, I dunno. :P (You cracked me up there!)Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-2886679968777768422009-05-12T19:14:09.000-04:002009-05-12T19:14:09.000-04:00Exactly! You can believe in Invisible Pink Unicorn...Exactly! You can believe in Invisible Pink Unicorns for all I care. Just don't force your beliefs down my throat and into laws, etc.<br><br>No, I understand what you're saying. you can believe in any number of deities from all around the world. I myself am a polyatheist. I don't believe in any of them. :P<br><br>What are you talking about 2 minutes to edit this? Who said that? I can't find it!Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-17104175895963055992009-05-13T04:51:26.000-04:002009-05-13T04:51:26.000-04:00I'm not suggesting that you edit your content,...I'm not suggesting that you edit your content, or try to sugar-coat your points. (Nor did I mean to imply that you were *trying* to be offensive - merely that it could easily come across that way.) It's simply a question of wording - well, that and the fact that I can't see your face or hear your tone of voice. <br><br>When I hear "good little X", the speaker is usually being condescending about X. Therefore, when I read "I was a good little Christian", in my head it sounds condescending. (Oddly enough, if you'd just said "I was a good Christian", I wouldn't have read it that way.) That has nothing to do with your intent, just the way it comes across to me as a reader. I have, of course, no idea how Roger or any other reader would interpret it.<br><br>And, on the second bit, "I started to see the blatant hypocrisy of the church" doesn't sound (to me) like you're talking about your personal experiences with one particular church. It sounds like you're talking about Christianity in general: the church.<br><br>I have the same problem with the term "sheeple" (from an earlier post). I realize that you're talking about that particular contingent of the population who seem to believe whatever they've been told, without any apparent reflection or any attempt at critical thinking. Use the term too casually, though, and it sounds like you think anyone with religious beliefs is a sheep. <br><br>Again, I'm not trying to suggest that you whitewash your experiences, or your account of them. I'm really just trying to point out a couple of places where I think your wording could be clearer - and, as a result, your attempt to open a respectful dialogue could be more successful. <br><br>Michael MockMichael Mockhttp://www.mockwriting.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-16720622839751071742009-05-13T06:07:28.000-04:002009-05-13T06:07:28.000-04:00It's under my comment whenever I post... It&#...It's under my comment whenever I post... It's a little 2 minute timer that ticks down, next to the edit this post button... and when that two minutes are up, op, no more edit button. Of course you're the author, you may not have such a limit as us such lowly commenters.<br><br>Oooo, this time it's a 5 minutes timer. Perhaps that's always been the case...GMNightmarenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-37033392845163260772009-05-13T21:35:46.000-04:002009-05-13T21:35:46.000-04:00Thanks Michael. I think I see what you're sayi...Thanks Michael. I think I see what you're saying and I'll keep that in mind.Neecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2352648376305239677.post-45039853060178452312009-05-13T21:36:46.000-04:002009-05-13T21:36:46.000-04:00Oh, that's so cool that you mentioned it. I ha...Oh, that's so cool that you mentioned it. I have a plugin so people can edit their comments but I could never tell if it was working. So thanks, GMN, you're so helpful, as usual! :DNeecehttp://www.heavingdeadcats.com/noreply@blogger.com