10 Reasons Atheists Are Morally Superior To Religious Fundamentalists

I found a refreshingly different article titled 10 Morals Atheism Gives Me a bit ago. While most atheists have been asked the typical religious question about how we can be moral without a god, this article dismisses the question as inherently flawed, and makes a statement instead.

In my experience, the bible goes on, especially in the old testament, about how to treat people who are different than you. It's full of hate and cruelty, with some arbitrary rules thrown in. Only a few of those rules are sensible. The rest are about control. From the little I know of the quran, it's even worse.

I'm not going to pick the bible (or the quran) apart. It's not worth my time and aggravation. If you believe that the bible is the divinely inspired word of god, you're only going to skim this article, find a few points to attack me while you brew up a cup of moral and righteous indignation, and then try to shove your fundamentalism down my throat because you're scared of people who think for themselves and don't have blind faith in fairy tales from the Fertile Crescent like you do. You don't listen anyway, you just find ammunition then viciously attack. What great role models you are. How very christ-like.

On the other hand, if you are truly interested in breaking free of the iron fist of god ruling your life and keeping you in ignorant fear, you can go to the Skeptic's Annotated Bible and look around for yourself.

The atheists who read this probably have already read that awful book, because as a general rule, we need to be more educated on religious matters than those militant religious folks that try to tell us how we should believe.

So, onto the 10 reasons atheists are morally superior, in no particular order, and my personal opinion about each one:

  1. No god tells me to hate gay people, so I have no reason to hate them. In fact I think if gay people love each other and want to get married, more power to them. Why should we stop love and caring based on gender? I encourage loving and caring any way it manifests itself.

  2. No god tells me that women are inferior and should subject themselves to men. So I'm equal to a man. Except getting spiders out of the house. He can be superior to me in that department. Oh, and opening jars. He can have that one too.

  3. No god tells me to pray instead of seeking medical attention. I believe in all kinds of scientific research and medicine. I even believe in stem cell research. I also think a woman has a right to choose what to do with her body. This probably goes up under the 'women are equal' entry as well, because I think it's ridiculous that an old man I will never meet gets to decide what I can and can't do with my body. Oh, and euthanasia should be considered an option, although it would have to be properly done so that no one gets murdered. But come on, if life is so freaking precious, why make some sick and dying person go through agony and humiliation and endure countless medical procedures just to stay alive? That's insane. Oh! And the death penalty is a great idea. We should use it more for heinous criminals. Definitely.

  4. No god tells me to hate people who believe in the same god but in a "wrong" way. Ok, that's just stupid. At thanksgiving dinner my cousin was harassed by the fundamentalist methodists there because she went to 3 different bible camps from 3 different churches. She said, it's all the same god, why does it bother you so much? I had to agree with her. They're so hateful and ignorant.

  5. No god tells me to be fruitful and multiply, then says that sex for fun is bad, then tells me that only sex between married people is ok, then denies me any kind of way to turn off my insatiable teenage sex drive except to come up with abstinence and praying as a lame solution. Which means that I am all for teaching teenagers and anyone who might think of sex how to be safe and protected. Nothing is more dangerous than ignorance. Proper education and access to prophylactics are real ways to reduce teen pregnancy and the spread of STD's. Also, as noted above, I also believe that mistakes happen, and so do horrible crimes against women. The morning after pill should be available to girls and women who need them to avoid unwanted pregnancies, and abortions, while not the ideal solution, should be legal and safe. Sometimes they are necessary, and a woman or girl shouldn't be bullied or forced into carrying a baby to term. Oh, and back to the 'be fruitful and multiply thing'. I didn't even have to have kids in the first place because I'm strong enough in myself that I don't need some namesake to carry on for me or continue to overpopulate the planet simply because a god said I had to, thousands of years ago. Or worse, I am not starving in some third world country, having babies one after the other for my whole short life because the christians forced their god on me long ago and imposed their ridiculous rules and told us stupid lies.

  6. No god tells me to hate people who look different than me, so I am free to see everyone as equal and the same, just with different packaging. No need to be racist. (Oh, yeah, Hitler was religious. So don't even bother with that one, christians. He's yours, not ours.)

  7. No god tells me to start a war over another land having the wrong god or the wrong types of people (see the one above), so I don't have to support pointless wars that justify some ridiculous ancient prophecy or for other silly reasons, like god talking directly to the leader of my country. (Don't even get me started on how scary that is. At least he's gone now!)

  8. No god makes promises to me about being a martyr, so I have no reason to strap a bomb to myself and blow up a train station or whatever kills the most innocent people.

  9. No god makes open-ended promises that will never come true about armageddon and going up to heaven soon, so I am responsible about the environment, and try my best to have a small impact on the planet, and also support research into making things better for everyone through science and smarter living.

  10. No god promises eternal life to me, so I understand that this life is precious. I take personal responsibility seriously, and I live my life the best way I can because it's the only one I've got. I value the lives of others too, for the same reason. Which is why I believe in the death penalty as I stated above. If you are a heinous person that has murdered, or other reprehensible crimes which would require you to be imprisoned for the rest of your life, I think you should be put to death quickly after a fair trial. No pussy-footing around. Because you don't deserve life, and you've destroyed the lives of others. There's no fix for you. So why the hell should we take better care of you when you showed no regard for the victims of your psychopathy? That's crazy.

See, atheists don't have some god telling them what to do, how to (not) think, how to believe. We think for ourselves. We figure out what's right based on our life experiences, and hopefully some good role models, then do our best to live good lives, simply because it's the right thing to do. Also, it's basic common sense.

Don't kill or steal, don't lie or cheat. Why not? Because we're all part of society, and we have to get along with everyone, at least for the basics, if we want to enjoy the easier life being in society affords us. Not to mention the empathy that we wouldn't want those things to happen to us, so we don't do them to others. This is the golden rule, the silver rule, and the platinum rule, which jesus didn't come up with first, by the way. It's a basic human concept, as old as humanity. Oh, and another reason we don't do bad things?

Consequences and personal responsibility. I drive the speed limit through town because I don't want a ticket. I understand that there are consequences for my actions, and that I am personally responsible for everything I do.

So with all those warped beliefs not indoctrinated into my mind, along with some common sense, an understanding of some simple concepts of cause and effect and personal responsibility, not to mention being aware of how good life is as a member of society and not in the woods in a cave with a stick, I have no trouble being an ethical atheist, when the only thing that stops christian fundamentalists and muslims from murdering and pillaging is an invisible man in the sky watching their every move, ready to ban them to an eternity of fire and torture because he gave them free will and then won't let them use it? Huh.

Yeah, I'd say most atheists are definitely morally superior to religious fundamentalists.


  1. That's a really good list. Thanks for sharing it.

  2. The one reason why atheists are the same as religious fundamentalists is this list. Why do you act like those you dislike so much? ;)

  3. I am an agnostic. I can't say for sure if there is a god or not---although I lean towards the latter.
    But I have always wondered why atheists try so hard to convert Christians.
    Live and let live!

  4. Thats a really interesting article ... But i'm guessing that you are talking about the religious people who hate everyone who doesn't think the same way, right ? I believe in god, some days more than others. But yet all the points you have about atheists apply to me. I dont hate gays, I don't see anything wrong in them. I just think those christians who do are idiots. Anyway, I truly hope that some day there won't be such a big gab between atheists and christians - we're all people after all !

    Gods blessings to you, and i f he doesn't exist, then no harm done :D

  5. Thank you for your distinct way of expressing my way of thinking as well. I have always been told that if I discuss religion with people, that the conversation will usually end in an argument. So I find that it is easier to discuss a topic, and when a party brings into the conversation "religion", I ask them "Why did you spoil my day?". I tell them to speak for themselves and leave religion out of it.

  6. Loved this list. I agree with... all of it really. :)

  7. Nicely thought out. I think the underlying theme here is the same as the one that I live by, and that is that we must think for ourselves. Relying on some "moral authority", whether it be a book or a religious leader, is an abdication from that which makes us human: reason and choice.

  8. I agree with everything except your views on the death penalty - I'm firmly of the opinion that two wrongs don't make a right and that killing a murderer for taking someone else's life puts us on the same level as them. However, I respect your right to have your own opinion on this matter as I think it's only right that people should think for themselves and form their own morality through careful consideration of personal experience and, like you say, empathetic understanding of other people's experiences. Also, I'm not actually an atheist - I do have a number of deeply held spiritual beliefs that tend more towards neopaganism than anything else, but unlike religious fanatics and fundamentalists I regard my beliefs as just that - my own personal belief system, drawn from personal experience and a philosophical outlook that gives me comfort and hope. I'd never presume to force my beliefs on another person as 'The Truth', I think everyone needs to figure things out for themselves. Blessed Be.

  9. I believe there are quite a few more reasons, but you've touched on some great ones!

    Whom is the better person? One who does good because he/she "wants" too, or one who does good because of the threat of hell-fire or promise of eternal reward?

    Not too difficult a question is it? ;-)

  10. Aaaaaaaamen!!!!

    You said it all and said it right and I could not agree more. Thank you for stating this concept so well. I especially agree with what you have said about our health issues. Get these politicians and 'holy folks' out of women's personal spaces!

  11. Great stuff, especially around the holidays. Strange how we don't need a god to tell us that it's not good to kill. We are the God damn best!!!

  12. It's interesting that your atheism has created an aversion to religion, which in itself creates a religion.

    Ironically, many of the things that you have ascribed to "religions" happen to be assumptions and stereotyping by grouping all religions together as though they are all suspicious of the same sort of activity.

    Furthermore, you make assertions about "religion" that are not in fact. In essence, your list is nothing less than a doctrine of beliefs, and therefore you have created a basis of fundamentalism that can fully be considered as "common belief" of atheist, and a foundational view that brings many atheist of the same belief together.

    Voila! You have religion.

    Interesting. Why? Because even the self ascribed "free thinkers" typically come up with the rules of what makes their religion better than other religions. Ironic indeed.

    PS: Religion to the educated person is not exclusive to spiritual ideologies. Religion in the full sense includes all ideas that organize and establish common beliefs.

  13. wow, that's some serious stereotyping.
    i'm a Christian and I agree that there are a lot of "christians" out there who make me not want to be one. But i can't answer for what they do, i can only answer for what I choose to do.

  14. I'm so very sorry that something has made you seem to hate Christianity so much. I really dislike being part of a "religion", for a lot of the reasons that you mention in your article. So many religions miss the point of God and the reason he sent his Son to earth. Being a Christian is a personal relationship, not a list of do's and dont's on how to be. A Christian is not perfect, those who pass judgment on others are proving that point.

    I can understand how you could be angry at Christians but please don't blame God or Christ our Lord. Those who have caused you to write this are just proving that everyone sins in the same way. The biggest difference is Christians, at least those who take it as a part of life and not just the traditions of a religion, have a relationship with Christ that can forgive us for those thoughts and acts.

    Please reconsider reading the New Testament. This was written after Christ died for us. God loves everyone, not just the "good". Like a parent, he tries to teach us what is good and what is not. That is the purpose of the Bible. Once I accepted the teachings in the Bible, I was actually freed from the feelings of guilt and hate that I felt towards others. I now know that everything that happens if for my betterment. My life is not perfect, but I can see in hindsight that the things that I would have asked "Why me, God?", have actually made me a better person. I feel better about myself and feel assured that when I do mess up, it will be forgiven.

    I hope you don't see this as a lecture, but I hope you can accept that Christianity isn't about hate, discrimination or being selective. There is a difference in life between being a Christian with a personal relationship with God and a life without that relationship. I feel no need to prove to you that I'm right. I know and feel it in a way that is unexplainable, except to call it faith.

    Please give the Bible and Christ a chance, away from others, away from the "religious". Just read with an open mind and heart.

  15. I did read the entire post, and didn't skim it. Yet, I have to respectfully disagree with the points drawn here, as they are founded on popular feelings and cultural sway in our society. They "sound good" but are simply have no ground to stand on.

    It all goes back to origins.

    The Atheist view is that somehow back in the beginning there was "nothing" then somehow "nothing became a force and acted on it's own nothingness" in order to become something. An almost infinitely small ball that contained all that exists which then exploded. Then over eons and the evolutionary process we get to where we are today.

    This is simply as impossible as 2+2=22.

    The "Religious Fundamentalist" view takes into account that an all-powerful, all-knowing, being that transcends all that exists (even space and time) set the whole thing up from the get-go via the act of creation.

    If he did so, then he may have drawn some lines for how we are to behave. The consequences for failing to live up to his standards are determined by himself and he can enforce them in an way he sees fit withing the bounds of his own power. (which is boundless)

    So while we may not understand fully why God told Israel to march into ancient Canaan and wipe out the entire populace including men/women/children/animals the bottom line is that you as the created thing cannot impose your flawed moral positions on The Almighty.

    The example of Hitler (and many others) is flawed as well because such people "claim" to have a mission from God, but in truth do not. They never received such direction in the first place and the false claim to diving direction would be a capital offense according to the law of the Old Testemant.

    In the end, the major question is WHICH position is the true and right position? Accepting the wrong position aligns you with falsehood which has very dire and eternal consequences.

  16. I don't know. I see your points for sure, but I also think they're based on specific Christian attitudes. There are a lot of folks out there who say they're Christians when they're attitudes and actions say otherwise (Hitler for example as you pointed out). I do believe in God and I believe in science - I'm a biologist. I certainly think for myself, but my life is guided by what I believe is good, and that is based on the Bible for me. We are all born selfish beings, and I truly believe that if we didn't have the 'guidelines' from the Bible that our country was based on, our country would be different. I don't want to help others so I can ...get into heaven. I already got that ticket. I want to help others because I feel called to do so and because putting and serving others before yourself is the true meaning of love and sacrifice. It's the whole reason Jesus lived. The ultimate example. I don't mind at all striving to be like Him. My views may be a little ...loose from the strict Christian extremists. I definitely believe in the death penalty. I believe that people who do good all their lives don't go to hell, whether they believe in Jesus or not. I think the Jews being doomed to hell is ridiculous, especially after what they went through in the Holocaust. I believe in a good and merciful God, and though I believe man and woman were meant to be together (in both a religious and scientific aspect), I don't think gays doomed either. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Regardless, I do appreciate your article.

  17. I find it amazing how you can twist any belief of a Christian and construe it for fair game.
    1. God has never called me to hate gays. God loves them as well but it does not condone their lifestyle. Any good parent would not allow their children to do things against their desire for the household.
    2. God never tells me to strap a bomb to my waist. My destiny is doing His will, and He loves life.
    3. God never needs to tell me to pray. A relationship requirement is communication. Since you do not know God, you would know this or seek it.
    4. God did everything possible for this relationship to happen. Only a self absorbed person would look at the rules as an enforcement instead of enjoying what can be done.
    Atheists will continue to look at what they CAN'T DO in God's laws than enjoy what is beneficial inside His grace. Humility is never an option to those who do not believe.

  18. Man, there is some serious stereotyping going on here. Because some very poorly represented faiths have been in your life, you think they're all the same. I would just say that that is ignorance on your part, and not anybody else's. jon was right when he said there are Christians out there who make not want to be associated with the name of Christianity, but we are accountable for our actions. Not those of other's.

    I do not kill because why should I decide who gets to live and who gets to die? It's not my business, and because I live in the same society as you, I show others the same respect I wish to receive. To say that the only reason we don't kill is because God is watching is crazy. Common sense is not swept away by the Bible. Common sense was given to us by God, and we're expected to use what He gave us. Funny, some atheists will use their mouths before using their brains, yet harp about how it's all common sense.

  19. The problem I believe with your argument is your relying on stereotypes to define a people. To label all "fundamentalists" as immoral people, and list out what they believe is to become prejudice yourself. I consider myself a fundamentalist yet only agree with one of your points. I'm sorry to inform you that you've probably had negative experiences with people who didn't fully understand the Bible.

    1) Where does God say he hates gay people? I don't.
    2) I can not argue with the fact that the Bible does say that women need to subject to their husbands. I agree with this view and am often times criticized for holding it. However, without a clear leader there is anarchy. The part of scripture that many times people leave out when referring to this is that the Bible also commands men to "love their wives as themselves." I'm not yet married, but when I am I will treat my wife just as well if not better than myself and for that their shouldn't be any problem or conflict between us.
    3) Where does God forbid the use of medication? I use it.
    4) God never asks us to hate anyone, I'd appreciate it if you found it for me. I don't hate anyone.
    5) Be fruitful and multiply isn't a specific command to you, but a general command to mankind. One we've kept fairly well. He asks you to only have sex with one person so that sex can be something special for you and that one person, and never does He say that sex for fun is wrong. Only sex outside of marriage is "wrong." With that said back in Biblical times, teenagers got married years earlier than now. So you wouldn't have to fight off your sexual desires, that is a byproduct of our new society not God. They way we live now has us going through 13 years of schooling and then college to get married. This wasn't so in the old times. Don't blame that on God.
    6) Once again God never asks us to hate anyone, and Jesus comes to mankind to tell us that gentiles and jews are created equal. Maybe you could find a verse for me?
    7) God does not command anyone into wars in present times. Not even Bush.
    8) I assume this isn't directed towards Christianity and will skip it.
    9) Well you don't really know that they won't come true. But if you look throughout the Bible a number of prophecies do come true. On top of that the bible commands the jews in both leviticus and in deutoronomy to take care of the environment, and he definitely doesn't say "destroy the earth" as your arguement implies. I do my best to stay "green" Why label me otherwise?
    10) Our God tells us of eternal life so that we understand not just how important our worldy lives our but also how important our souls are. As far as the death penalty we need to understand that all of us screw up and thus we shouldn't be so quick to judge. If a person murders, living him in jail for life is just punishment enough i believe. I believe in the sacredness of life too, why judge me otherwise?

  20. . . . Herr Hitler was RC. He and Pius XII shared a common cause -- the destruction of European Jewry. Rather than burden us with your ignorance, try reading Atheist Manifesto by Michel Onfray. And, of course, modern biological theory refutes xianity. Oh yes, religion is not the foundation of morality -- that too is based on monotheist propaganda. You might look at The Greeks and the Irrational by E R Dodds (pp 30-31). You've got spatio-temporal tunnel vision, people -- it'd be laughable if you weren't so damned sure you were right. Kindly stop speaking aloud the old lies.

    ** Live and Let Die **

    Seven deadly Lies of the Big-4 near eastern monotheisms:
    1. there is a *spiritual* dimension apart from and above nature
    2. nature displays design and evinces moral purpose
    3. time is shallow (6,000 yrs.) with an apocalyptic end
    4. humanity represents the (non-evolutionary) goal and apex of life on Earth
    5. morality must have a religious (spiritual) foundation
    6. each person must choose between good and evil
    7. *truth* is absolute (as revealed in some ancient magical text)

    Xianity, like its murderous relatives islam, judaism, zoroastrianism never offers anyone a choice to live-and-let-live. Conversion is not optional. The Big Lies are non-negotiable demands.

    You must conform — abase yourself. Let your wishes, desires, and plans be dictated by some priest, pastor, imam, spiritual adviser, rabbi. Of course, hypocrites play a double game, but accept its *rules*.

    And, if you're too honest or brave to be a hypocrite? It depends — on how much power over life and death true believers have.

    I don't see any psychological difference between the Taliban in Afghanistan and bible-worshipers (fundies) spread like metastases across the US. Without a vigorously enforced secular state, we anti-supernaturalists would burn at the stake or receive a bullet in the head.

    For all true believers, this is their doctrine: "those not with us are against us" (Luke 11:23), or as Ian Fleming says, Live and Let Die.

    bipolar2 © 2008

  21. Haha, my 8 turned into a smiley

  22. Umm... Yeah.
    1 reason normal religious people are morally superior to atheistic fundamentalists: We don't make lists like this that appear to accuse all religious (and/or atheists) people, rather than the fundamentalist few that DO believe it :P

    I, personally, tend to ignore most of the Bible that you're talking about, and pay more attention to the Christian part. You know, the teachings of Christ, the basis of Christianity, the bits about loving people? The parts that i would follow, whether i'm after rewards or not? Also, i happen to have all morals you mentioned above, with, it seems, a little more compassion for my fellow man. After all, you don't see me going out and posting scathing blog comments that are only true for a minority, you only see me replying in self-defense.

    But please, could you at some point qualify why so many atheists seem to deem it necessary to go out and post these kinda blogs, what do you get from it? Please answer that one for me! (Y)

  23. Ok. To all the Christians who are blasting this woman for her post. Before I say this, I must let you know. I was a pastor for 5 years at the height of my religious fervor. I know the bible, I have read it many times in developing my sermon. There were just parts I had to say to myself "Oh lets not speak about that, it might turn people from the flock."

    1. In Leviticus 18:12 and 20:13, God DOES say to hate the gays. He says to straight up to murder them.

    2. 2 Timothy 3:17-18 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

    What this passage is saying: The Bible was written by man as an inspiration from God. So it can be used for providing faith to your followers, but if you find something you don't like in it, you can remove it so your parishioners will stay with God and not falter in their faith.

    Further meaning. If the Bible is allowed to be changed as mentioned in Timothy, it is not the perfect Word of God anymore. For if something was perfect, it would not need change or even mention that there might be a need to change it later down the road.

    There is a lot more that can be said, but I do not have time at the moment to go further in. However I will keep an eye on this topic.

    By the way. All scripture from KJV

  24. ...the Leviticus passage says nothing of "hating" Yes it does say they shall be put to death, but the original poster is for the death penalty anyways. I understand why people have qualms with many passages in deutoronomy and in leviticus. Both books often come down hard on certain immoralities. However, this was an early time for the judeo-christian faith, and thus God didn't want it tainted or for it to vanish. Either way though, OT has no significance today. Being a pastor you should realize that Jesus changed a lot of stuff, and we are no longer to kill men who behave in homosexual ways. Thats way way in the past, so it's of no consequence now.

    And for the 2 Timothy verse, I think you're misreading it horribly. For one you should read it within the context of the entire chapter. "Reproof and correction" isn't talking about the bible, and that it can be changed or altered, it's talking about people. That people should change and be corrected. I seriously hope you didn't give up Pastoring because of that verse.

  25. oh, man... the god botherers are coming out of the woodwork for this one, eh?

    and all with the same flawed reasoning, flawed arguments and stale apologetics that we've come to know and loathe...

    Keep up the good work Neece. Don't pay any attention to the idiots posting here. They wouldn't give you the same courtesy that they'd give to another believer...

  26. just dont forget one small detail: if you kill one innocent person for a crime that he/she did not commit then the pain is on you ! we humans are fallible dont you ever forget...ONLY for this reason we cannot give death penalty! you can really never be sure...please be aware of this!

  27. Oh crap! I really didn't mean to bring the pearl clutchers down on your head when I submitted your post to Stumbleupon. Forgive?

  28. Thanks very much for all of your comments so far. :)

    Karen: Thank YOU for reading and commenting.

    None: Just because you pull some half assed comment out of your ass doesn't make it true. Atheists and fundies have nothing in common. Name 5 things we have in common. I'm listening.

    Marvin: I totally agree! Live and Let Live! But when my rights and my way of life are impacted on a daily basis in insidious ways by fundamentalists who think they know best what is right and wrong for me based on their musty old god, I have issues with that. They don't let me live in peace, so at some point, I had to stand up for myself and use my Constitutional rights to speak out and let others in the same predicament know they are not alone in a sea of blind sheep. Trust me, I'm not a confrontational person. I would much rather let everyone go about their lives with whatever beliefs they have formulated. Where that fails is when a belief system says that one person is superior to another because of his belief in an invisible man in the sky, and that person then forces his narrow world view on the rest of us.

    Milana: I totally agree with you. I wish that we could all just get along and be peaceful together, and accept each other as we are. I'm glad you seem to think for yourself. :)

    Glenn: I hear you! You expressed it perfectly! I think I'll do that at christmas when they all start talking about their god and bible camp and preachers and sermons. I'll say, "Why did you ruin my day?" :P I love that too: "speak for yourself and leave religion out of it!" Thanks for sharing!

    Angela: Thanks, I am glad you liked it. :)

    Erik: Yes! We MUST think for ourselves, definitely a lost art these days. Not only that, we MUST be RESPONSIBLE for our actions and thoughtful of our beliefs.

    B. Johnson: I would love it if you'd let me know if you think of any other reasons. Exactly, you're right. It's an easy question.

    Samantha: I know my stance on the death penalty is controversial. But see, I don't believe that the death penalty is trying to make a right. Ending a murderer's life is not about justice. The innocent person is dead and can't be brought back to life. If someone is proven guilty of a heinous crime, why should we feed and care for them for the rest of their lives, why should they have better health care than most people, why should they get 3 hot meals and a warm bed, cable, an exercise room, all at the expense of taxpayers, including the family of the innocent? I do appreciate that you respect the fact that I get an opinion on this issue though. Your opinion counts too, and I appreciate dialogue a great deal. I also respect your spiritual beliefs. We all have to think for ourselves and create our own belief systems.

    chase: You know it, we are! HA! :D :D :D

  29. I did not stop being a christian due to that 2 Timothy verse, but you are the one that is sadly mistaken for the context.

    I am an atheist because I realized like Neece said..."he gave them free will and then won’t let them use it?" A statement like that was said by Dawkins, and it got me thinking. I did a lot of thorough research on the subject. When I realized that Truth is something provable. With out proof, a thought is an opinion...even if that thought has been around for say, around 2000 years.

    It makes me mad too when people try to reconvert me as if I didn't even THINK about the decision I made. I just tell them even if I do come back, I will still go to Hell since I deny the Holy Ghost.

    Matthew 12:31-32 (King James Version)
    31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

    I have lots to say. Sorry for taking your comments as a vent Neece.

  30. Joe: You are drowning in a sea of logical fallacies; misinterpreting my post and exaggerating the power of atheist bloggers to try to appear repressed and victimized. Also you admit to cherry picking your holy bible to select just the tender morsels that suit you. I wonder what your god would think of that.
    iGoogle has a feature called Google Suggest. When googling the following terms, Google offers relevant suggested terms in real time. The number it shows for each term represents the approximate number of results that would return for the suggested query.
    ~ christian blog and its derivative terms: 551,631,000
    ~ atheist blog and its derivative terms: 7,374,000
    When comparing christian blogs to atheist blogs, the numbers are strikingly unbalanced in favor of the christians. So before using hyperbole to play the victim, look at the reality of the situation. We all know that there are many more christians than atheists in the world. These numbers suggest that there are 75 times more christian blogs than atheist. To use your own words, I am only replying in self defense about my own thoughts and beliefs. Where's the harm in that? Is your faith so weak that my opinion rattles you?

    David: Thank you for your comment. Your perspective as a pastor are interesting, to say the least. I do hope you return and welcome any further comments and insight. :)

    James: Um, so you are saying that god wanted homosexuals to be put to death in a loving way? WTF? Yes, I am for the death penalty- for criminals of heinous crimes like murder, torture, molestation and rape, in case you're still not clear what constitutes a truly reprehensible crime. Anyway, you're also saying that we should disregard over half of the holy bible, the whole entire old testament because YOU feel it's irrelevant today? I thought it was the divinely inspired word of god. For your information, the jesus portrayed in the new testament was a good jew, very much in support of the old testament and its teachings and rules. Also, you say that god didn't want the judeo-christian faith tainted. Now you know the mind of god? Again, your opinion. Funny how you get to make stuff up at your leisure.

    RC: Thanks very much, I totally appreciate your comment. :D :D :D I also agree wholeheartedly.

    manfred kramer: This is a very good point. Yes, people are fallible, as is the law and the judicial system. It certainly does make the issue terribly complicated. Thanks for your comment.

    Karen: PEARL CLUTCHERS! AAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I've never heard that term before! I love it! Now, listen, this is all good. Thanks very much for submitting my article to SU. I mean it. I've learned a lot replying to the comments- about myself and about people in general, plus I've done some research as well which is always a good thing. So, I really can't forgive you because I'm quite thankful to you instead. I feel honored that you liked my post enough to submit it, and like I said, I've learned a lot, as I always try to do. You rock! :D Have a great weekend! :D

  31. David, welcome back! :) Welcome to the dark side! (Just a little atheist humor there). :P Truth is something provable. Exactly. If something is True, it conforms with fact or reality. And I totally agree, just because a popular belief has been around for thousands of years, that doesn't make it True. For example, it was commonly believed that the Earth was flat. Now we know better. Science, investigation, experimentation, observation and repeatable results all led the way to coming to the Fact that the Earth is round and that we orbit the sun. Facts are hard won but well worth the effort. I, too, had to do a lot of research on the subject of religion and history to get where I am today. Personally I found shedding the heavy cloak of religion and faith to be both terrifying and liberating in the same moment. It certainly was not easy and was not a belief I shed lightly. It's so much easier to follow the flock, believe in fairy tales and myths and a kind, loving god up above that has my best interest at heart. But, there has never been in all of recorded human history a single mustard seed sized drop of proof that even just hints that any god exists. And without any proof, it's all wishful thinking, opinion, and faith. Nothing more.
    Don't worry, though, you're not going to hell any more than I am because there is no such thing.

  32. [...] at Heaving Dead Cats offers 10 reasons why atheists are morally superior to religious fundamentalists: No god tells me to hate gay people, so I have no reason to hate them. In fact I think if gay [...]

  33. Thank you for your take on my list. I have to say it was written much more skillfully than mine.


  34. Hey Brian. That's so nice of you to say! Thanks very much for inspiring me. This one was fun! :D

  35. Ha! Sorry, i stand corrected! Man, really sorry if i sounded bitchy and moany, i doubt i was having a good day. Thanks for showing me those facts, i doubt i'll ever use that argument again.
    Keep up the good work!

  36. Thanks very much Joe. We all get to live and grow and learn in this life. It's a good thing. :D :D :D I certainly hope you're having a good day today. :)

  37. I have also read the 10 morals previously and am Agnostic leaning towards Atheism. However, I think it's important as a human not matter how frustrating it is to respect one another on that basis: we're all human. My fiance is religious and his family and friends are all religious and they can all make me pretty mad blindly following this faith. However, no matter how frustrated I can become because I don't see the picture like they do I understand that they need their religion and I believe a lot of Atheists forget this. Yes, we are above religion however for some it's all that's left for hope in the world and I think we should not degrade each other based on religion or even politics. And just because Atheists get attacked quite often does not mean we have any right to attack back with as much vigor. We, as sensible humans, should realize we must be the bigger person.

  38. Hi Marissa, thanks for your comment. I agree, we're all human. I agree that atheists need to be the bigger person. You're exactly right, and in fact that's what I'm saying in the post. I am the bigger person, as are a lot of atheists, mainly because I think for myself and understand that religious folks are lost in their beliefs and fears, which are amazingly hard to grow up from.
    That doesn't excuse christians from moral responsibility though. We also shouldn't make excuses for weaker people who blindly believe what their told by the church and the bible, especially when what they're told is bigoted and full of lies and is meant to control them.
    When you get past christians who believe but still try to think rationally, and end up in the religious fundamentalist category where thinking for yourself is pretty much unheard of, which is who I mainly address here, then yes, I stand by what I am saying here.

  39. Oh man, you Christians just didn't get it did you?

    Guys he's not stereotyping, he's addressing a concern that is often brought up. There's a difference. That's like saying addressing big companies polluting is stereotyping all big companies as polluting. Just because he didn't specifically mention the ones who aren't doesn't mean he's unaware of them. Yes we're aware that there are decent Christians and stupid/jerk Christians, thanks, we weren't addressing the non-jerks so non-jerks quit making jerks of yourselves by being offended.

    He also didn't ascribe a list of doctrines. He didn't just write an atheist bible up there! Its a list of general moral truths that are easy to agree on without bias across the entirety of humanity- the point is that its common decency and not a doctrine.

    And since when are you not allowed to, if not hate, be frustrated with someone actively attacking you and demoralizing you? Atheists are the most untrusted and one of the most discriminated against minorities in the country. The reason we defend our position is because it has been attacked and we are responding, so don't accuse us of attacking hatefully when we got the unprovoked hostility.

    The problem with live and let live comes when Christians vote for laws requiring "Christian" actions that harm non-Christians ability to function freely. Abortion is a great example, but stem cells, gay marriage, teaching evolution and other things are also very important subject that Christians not only want to exercise their right not to believe in, but impose it on others.

    And there is a difference between Someone telling Others they can't do something and the Others telling them they can't tell us to not do something. The denial of liberty is the fascism, not those defending their choice.

    And once again, yes, there are many wonderful people who are religious. Misguided, but otherwise perfectly intelligent, compassionate people. Just because we don't mention them when replying to our attackers doesn't mean we don't know about them. I'd say maybe 3 out of 7 of my friends are that way, and even my husband has deist tendency, so don't get so offended. If you're not the problem, then you have no reason to- you should be agreeing with us.

  40. Hi Liz, thank you for a brilliant comment! :D I agree!

    I do have one little problem though. I'm a she (always have been), not a he. :P Funny this has happened several times since I've started this blog.

    Anyway, back to what you said. I think a lot of the people who "don't get it" - the grumpy, miserable religious fundamentalists who seek out arguments and fights and people to hate - pointedly ignore the finer points of what someone like me tries to say. They use bullying, manipulative, abusive, blitzkrieg-esque attacks to try to make themselves feel superior to people who don't march in lockstep to their hate-filled, spoon-fed dogma of lies and mindless control.

    I agree though. If you're a reasonable christian who lives and let lives, who lets people make their own decisions and accepts people of differing beliefs, if you don't try to shove your christian morals down the throats of everyone just to make you feel better about yourself, and to make it easier for you to be a lazy parent, then this article and most of what I blog about, really isn't directed at you.

    So, exactly, don't get offended and act like the christians who give christians a bad name, when you aren't even being discussed.

    That being said, I would like to add that I welcome reasonable discourse with anyone, especially regarding religion. :)

  41. To those claiming the atheist position is that "something" came from "nothing", you're just using a straw man. Here, let's try something on for size, and I'll say it nice and slowly:

    I don't know exactly how the universe came into being.

    "I don't know" is a hell of a lot more honest than saying, "I have the answer" (as Christians so often try to do). But you're just making that stuff up. Don't try to put us on the same playing field, when you are making up preposterous answers to the origins question and some of us are keeping an open mind by saying, "I'm not really sure exactly what happened. I have a pretty good idea It wasn't God waving his magic wand, the same as I have a pretty good idea that Glinda the Good Witch (who also doesn't exist) didn't do it, either. But I'd rather wait for more information before I throw my hat in the ring and say, 'This is the only possible explanation.'"

    That clear enough for you guys yet?

  42. Hi, Bah and thanks for the comment. Right, just because christians search high and low for meaning in a dusty old text from thousands of years ago and decide that is the be-all end-all of meaning in the universe, that doesn't make it true, it just makes you crazy and lazy.
    I think it's very mature to say we don't have all the answers, and let's keep looking and exploring and testing.
    It certainly makes a hell of a lot more sense than relying on bronze and iron age men who didn't know that there were even such things as bacteria and viruses, never mind how the universe came about.

  43. My atheist friends,
    You may be surprised that a Christian clergyman like myself agrees with so much of what you say that I've published a web page called http://www.whatkindofgod.org/ that might provide you with ammunition to use when battling the mass of people who call themselves "Christ" but would crucify him again were he to cross their paths.
    I'm the founder of a movement called "Liberals Like Christ" which has been using http://LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/ and related sites for a dozen years to promote the idea that "Christianity" has little to do with the actual teaching and example of Jesus ( called the "Christ" or messiah) but is instead the church of Paul of Tarsus. It was Paul, not Jesus, who promoted the whole idea of a church, who despised women and gays (though he may well have been gay himself), who promoted contempt for the Jews, who condoned slavery and promoted blind subserviance to abuse authorities of all kinds.

    So check us out. You won't agree with everything we represent, but it might be a good idea for you to help us loosen the stranglehold of the "Religious Right" over "people of faith" who aren't candidates for being "free thinkers" any time soon, but might be persuaded to be "Liberals Like Christ" - which I am sure you will agree is the next best thing -. ( People like the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr, Jesse Jackson, Bishop Spong, Robert Kennedy, Jimmy Carter, McGovern, Mondale, Sargeant Schriver, Franklin D. & Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, Barak Obama, etc., and any number of other famous "Liberals Like Christ" world wide.

    By the way, congratulations on a really attractive site (as well as substantive one). I'm shopping for a more professional design for my own site and will be asking my designer to take a good look at YOURS.

  44. Neece said:

    " B. Johnson: I would love it if you’d let me know if you think of any other reasons."

    Just stumbled upon this site again!
    Actually you've covered it quite well, I haven't a lot of time to post to this but here goes.

    No God or religion asks me to give my money to build churches, mosques or synagogues.

    No God or religion asks me to give my time and money to convert others to my way of thinking.

    Imagine how many medical and social advances could have been made with the money wasted on these things.
    Hospitals, clinics and research facilities instead of houses of worship? Yep...seems like a no-brainer to me.

    Happy Equinox! B. Johnson

  45. Oops....Should have said " Happy Winter Solstice" :-)

  46. Man, i love that 'Notify me of followup comments via e-mail' feature, i've been able to keep up with all of this :)
    I'd just like to put a point to B. Johnson...
    Chinese Olympic Stadium.
    War in Iraq.
    Two things that are completely secular. Two things were/are very expensive. How about all the scientific/social advances we could have if the millions, billions or trillions (i'm not sure how much they cost, i don't tend to take much of an interest in them) of dollars, that could have been used in the research of a cure to cancers or similar, rather than something that hurts and kills people, or entertains people with slightly better facilities than already existed.
    At least some churches use some of their moneys to help homeless people; certainly, my church puts a helluva lot more money in to helping the homeless, much more than my government does...

    Just thought i'd point out that fact, and i'd love to see if anyone will tell me it's not true (honestly, truly sincerely would love to know, the search for the truth is pretty important to me) and hope that this keeps going!

    Merry Christmas, y'all (I'm not gonna pretend it's a christian festival anymore, lets face it, it's a consumerist celebration now) and a Happy New Year!
    Oh, any merry Winter Solstice for tomorrow, and if any gamers are out there, enjoy your Winter-Een-Mas, a Happy Hanukah to any Jews, hope you Muslims had a good Eid, and if there's any other religious or secular celebrations i missed, enjoy them too!!
    Shalom :)

  47. Thanks B. :)
    The whole conversion thing really bothers me. I wonder how different some countries would be if the church hadn't infiltrated and converted so many people. They taught (and still preach) that birth control is bad, and making babies for the lord is good. But then everyone has to go in and feed all those starving babies because the people can't support them.
    Imagine how much less hold Aids would have on the world if people were taught about it without the church's stigma attached to the baby/birth control thing. Barbaric.

  48. Hi Ray, thanks for the comment.
    First, thanks for the compliment on my site. I appreciate it.
    I agree with you about Paul of Tarsus twisting and warping things to his own liking. He seemed like a pretty hateful kind of guy. And you're quite correct that a lot of people are actually following Paul's teachings, not Jesus'. I just wrote a post on that yesterday: http://www.heavingdeadcats.com/2008/12/19/99-percent-of-christians-are-hypocrites/
    I disagree with you on several points of logic I found in a cursory scan of your sites, but overall they're pretty interesting. The historical information seems pretty factual, from what I've researched.

  49. Joe,
    Point taken and agreed upon. There are many secular events / structures that are rather pointless and do nothing for the good of mankind. (Sports arenas come to mind :_)

    But countless billions go to build these supposed shrines to God-Christ-Allah-Zeus and Apollo, and for damned sure the money spend on these structures and on converting the unbelievers to these faiths far outweigh the good these organizations do....But without a doubt many do contribute to the homeless and less fortunate among us, so yes I agree, they do some good deeds and for that they are to be commended.

    Still, I believe I'd rather be taken to a well staffed hospital if I were in critical condition than to a beautiful cathedral :-)
    Ergo more hospitals and less cathedrals.

    Happy Holidays

  50. You've earned the compliments, and I'm glad that you found something worthwhile at my site. I really, really look forward to objections or complaints as they sometimes result in improvements either to content or to the presentation. So DO let me know about any thing you "disagree with".
    Just one caution. Be careful about questioning my "logic" as I was a logic professor in a previous incarnation. LOL

  51. Hey Joe, thanks for the comment.
    I agree that tons of money goes to purely wasteful endeavors. The difference though is that no god or church begs for the money to build a sports arena like your god does to build another church or to go convert people.
    Of course, taxes pay for such things, which is where I would then have to agree with you.
    Which means that the real issue here is that people spend money on stupid things instead of what would be most helpful. A human fault, I dare say.
    I do have to say that I think it's nice that churches help the homeless. But at what price? They try to convert the downtrodden while helping them. And do they help with a short term fix or do they help with a long term solution to the problem? That is an issue that must be looked into for such things.
    If a church goes and feeds the homeless on Thanksgiving, makes the homeless pray to get their free meal, then they all go home to their own warm beds while the homeless shuffle out and sleep in boxes, how is that truly helpful? Sure, it looks good and the church-goers feel all warm and fuzzy about what they did, but it's a token effort. It seems to me that most missionaries are doing their work to convert more people to their church.
    I also contend that it certainly does NOT take a church to actually go and help people. Many people and organizations help people just to make a difference. No god needed. That's true humanitarianism.
    It would be interesting to see the facts and figures of who gives what to people in need. I would love to know.

  52. I agree, the money spent on churches is obscene compared to the good they do. Plus they make the poor people they "help" convert to their religion. I think that's pretty manipulative. Not to mention they then give bad information to people. Like in Africa: birth control is evil, make babies for the lord. Then who has to feed all the babies? It's insane, if you ask me.

  53. Neece said:

    "Like in Africa: birth control is evil, make babies for the lord. Then who has to feed all the babies? It’s insane, if you ask me."

    Insane indeed, not only in Africa but all over the world.

    For instance, in Catholicism the only sanctioned birth control is the so called "rhythm" method or total abstinence, which as we all know leads to countless unwanted births in families too poor to properly raise a half-dozen children.

    I find it hard to believe that if there *is* a god he/she/it would want to see children dying of malnutrition.

    The same applies to the AIDS epidemic, condoms provide a great deal of protection from the virus but if a religion decides that condoms are a sin.....people die.

    (Playing that old John Lennon song "Imagine" )

  54. IMHO, the Catholic Church shouldn't be allowed to brag to the public about its "charity" work unless and until it opens its books for public scrutiny. Here's an example of how badly they MISmanage contributions intended for "charity" :
    http://www.newsday.com/news/local/ny-liloot2712216351nov27,0,7707857.story .

    I heartily agree, by the way, with all the criticism being made here of that church's opposition to gay equality, birth-control and abortion.

  55. Yes, you explained much better what I was referring to. Thanks, B. :D

  56. I don't think anyone should brag about charity work. Look at all that Bill Gates does. You hardly ever see his name mentioned but he does tons of stuff all around the world. And you'd think someone as maligned as Bill Gates would want the kudos for doing good stuff. But he is quiet about his good works. I respect that.
    But it isn't about bragging. It's about using charity as a way to convert weak people to a weaker way of life, giving more power over bigger numbers in the "name of god". It's manipulative and insidious.

  57. I will admit, a short time ago (just over a year, i think) my church did build itself a brand new building, and it did cost a rather princely sum, and there is NO way i'm going to be able to properly give a reason for it when we could have put all that money into helping build homes for less fortunate people (would have made a good few flats at that price, that's for sure). The only reason i can really give is that the 2-3000 people we have coming were struggling to fit in the old rented hall, and that really isn't a great excuse, but we do use the building as a HQ for many charity things, and also run by my church is something called The Care Zone, which has food and furniture that we get for free from local businesses which is then given to people in need.

    And i must say, i'm sickened by any church or other religious group that would force a person to convert or even pray for their food! It's not our choice to push religion on them, we can only show them what we do and see if they want to come along to a service. We never go out and preach on the streets, although occasionally we will go out and give out invites to a guest service 'specially for people to come, like our Christmas one recently, and we also partner up with our local authority to help improve people's neighbourhoods, annually without fail we paint and renovate the community area of the local area our church is in.
    I just thought i'd tell you how my church runs, just to point out that there are many different ways of doing this.
    Thanks! :)

  58. Sounds like your church is doing it right. That's good to hear. Thanks for sharing, Joe. :) I think the community you get from a good church in a good community is something very special and healthy. :)

  59. Absolutely, Neece. That's what I meant by "bragging".

  60. Not to be pedantic, but the definition of brag is to boast, to talk with excessive pride.
    What I said is wrong with the "good" works of the catholic church and other so-called charities in the name of god is that they are vehicles for conversion.
    That has nothing to do with bragging, so I'm not sure how what you said is the same thing?

  61. Dog dung is morally superior to religious fundamentalists. They shouldn't be allowed to procreate.

  62. LOL! Quite a strong statement, Scy. Thanks for the comment.

    I feel that having children is such a huge responsibility that no one should be allowed to have them unless they can prove they'll make great parents. Brainwashing the poor little kids with fairy tales of an old fickle man in the sky that watches you, and horrid fears of burning in hell is definitely unheathy. So I agree with you.

  63. How does the R.C. church make "good works" a "vehicle" if not by using the capital they build up to impress the faithful and the public so that they will either continue giving or avoid criticism or defend themselves against condemnation, all of which you can describe YOUR way or MINE, but boils down IMHO to the same thing.

  64. You dont mention godless religions......
    Any reason?

  65. That would be because a "godless religion" is an oxymoron, meaning the two terms are mutually exclusive. By definition, a religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. (dictionary.com)
    People who don't believe in any gods have no set beliefs about the origin and purpose of the universe, have no belief in superhuman agencies, have no rituals of any kind, and have their own personal morals for themselves, not a set code, thereby having zero religion. Damn good reason, huh?

  66. Oh man, you cannot be serious.

    Any religion tries far harder than any Atheist ever has and will to convert people to them. A good Atheist though, the ones like myself, will let religious people mind their own.

    I have a problem with religion, yes, I don't like it and I think it causes many of today's problems, but I do not go around and preach this and try to "convert" every religious person I see to Atheism. (Call that statement hypocritical if you will, I'm just stating my opinion.)

    I do not mind anybody who is religious so long as they stay on their own grounds, I'm always up for an intellectual debate though.

  67. Hear Hear, Calvin! Honestly, I don't try to "convert" anyone to atheism, namely because that would imply that atheism is a religion when it's simply a realization that there is nothing supernatural in existence.
    Live and let live is right. So why can't christians practice what they preach?
    I don't try to tell christians they should give up their myths and fairy tales. So why do they insist on forcing prayer into government run schools, or insist on teaching creationism in those schools? That's trying to force their weak and feeble beliefs onto me and innocent children, an honest, ethical atheist just trying to live my life in peace.
    I also don't try to force my morals onto others. So why do they force their false morals onto me through the government when the First Amendment says there is freedom of religion and FROM religion? See, that's where christians don't fight fair. Then they whine and complain that they are being attacked by "militant" atheists who just want to keep things rational and want to live without having thought police tell them what to think and believe.

  68. God made rules and guidelines for people to follow so that they may enjoy life more. If athiests are superior why is it these days that divroce levels are at an all time high??? And why is it that the world is in recession??? Ignorance and the inability to listen to twoguidelines god suggests. do not be greedy and to cherrish marriage

  69. Randall, I won't even bother to try to explain critical thinking and common sense to you.
    But if you go to the bible belt in the south, that's where divorce rates are highest, as well as obesity. Coincidence?
    Your ignorance is not a virtue, it's a deadly sin.

  70. Wow! You just did the same thing.

    Perhaps humans just cannot get away from dogma. And, perhaps there is one that is correct while some are absolutely incorrect such as the belief in a monotheistic god whom intervenes with mankind.

  71. As an atheist, you propose a scientific position known as the big bang theory - a theory to which not all atheists prescribe too. Only that it may be more plausible than an almighty creator as others suggest because the creator explanation is not scientifically founded to be true or even justified with a valid theory. Now, this does not prove the big bang, only it shows that as an atheist, the burden of proof for the monotheistic god of the Bible is on those who propose it to be true. But, since that is a belief based on faith (that which cannot or has not been seen) then there really isn't any grounds for debate in terms of one side converting to the other. This is where science and religion differ because one is based on sight seen and the other other on sight unseen. As for an atheist, I am probably going to align with science, but a theory is not always agreed upon; therefore, please don't assume that all atheists believe this, although many do, and I would not shun that theory simply to appease anybody, but remember that it is more well founded scientifically than the god of the Torah.
    Finally, for me to believe that genocide is okay because of faith (unseen belief) in a higher power justifies it is a crime against humanity or people that I can see. I can't live with myself morally and honestly if I try to justify it that way. Basically, it is one group of people justifying conquest over another via religion.
    At the end of everyday and the beginning of it, for that matter, a question I have to live with is whether or not I support the killing of innocents at the hands of those who claim to be righteous whether or not if they justify their moral superiority through religion or science. Dire? Those who are slaughtered are the only ones who ought to attest to dire. Not the living. Certainly not the living who have the time on their hands to discuss matters on a website. Eternal? Where is the evidence for that? Words from ancient people who lived with only the light of the sun and moon?

  72. change a lot of stuff, like extending the covenant to the gentiles? Yeah, OT is irrelevant!!! Funny, its only the basis for the prophecies which NT uses to justify who Christ is. If it is irrelevant then so is christianity, so is your belief. Ever wonder why many jews denied Christ as the messiah? Probably not, you just assumed it was because they were against the true, anointed one! Those evil, stupid jews who denied Christ are the same ones who preserved the OT prophecies. The same ones who wrote the "irrelevant OT" right? Makes sense that their opinion of who Christ claimed to be doesn't matter to you because it makes it easier for you to believe in christianity. According to jews Christ did not fit the prophecies, thus he was not the messiah, and if you will go research this, maybe look it up online or speak to a jewish rabbi or scholar, you'll be hard pressed, if honest, not to see Christ as a false prophet or messiah, whichever. The religion implodes on itself and all your statements above go to prove that although apparently unbeknownst to you. LOOK IT UP, don't just take a strange atheist's word for it. LOOK IT UP! You have been another brick in the wall. The sooner you recognize this, the sooner you can live the rest of your days in freedom, although it will be difficult to begin the process. I use to be like you. LOOK IT UP.

  73. And perhaps there is no god and all religions are wrong.
    Atheists are, by definition, free of dogma, free of the irrational need to believe in a sky daddy.

  74. You talk in wide looping circles of vague misunderstandings. Read more, study more. Learn more about science and how it works. Then come back and talk from some basic understanding.

    I personally think that science and religion do not mix. Religion is based on indoctrinated, dogmatic faith and belief, based on fears and superstitions from not understanding how the universe and everything in it works.

    Science is based on wonder and curiosity, and a deep desire to understand how the universe and everything in it works. So in science we go out and observe and test and try experiments. Then we go and test those findings with more experiments and more observations. We never stop asking why, and how. It's a wonderful thing.

  75. Well, Michael, here I agree with you. Don't take any one person's word for anything. Look it up, do the research. Read the studies or in this case the original texts of the bible. Don't accept one source. Look for differing opinions, then make up your own mind.

    And there is no evidence that anyone that fits the bill for jesus ever existed. So look deeper than just the bible in all its forms. Look outside of these "religious" texts. Study history as well. Find the facts buried in all the stories. Just like many of the people who have come to realize religion is bunk before you.

  76. There actually is evidence of the Jesus of the Bible existing, notably Josephus, a Jewish historian, and if I am correct, ah Eusebius, Roman historian. However, neither make the claims the Bible does concerning the deity of Christ. In fact, it is the lack of specific reference by these two historians about Christ that make the Bible's claims so suspect. Obviously, for the Romans, he wasn't much of a figure of interest, just another crazy Jewish guy claiming to be the messiah. For the Jews, Christ's claims were blasphemous and did not line up with Jewish prophecy.
    Of course, there are many other sources outside of religious texts, but those texts are also interesting to note when talking with people who claim to believe those texts. Typically, "believers" do not know what their texts actually say, and it is my hope to expose this to them in an effort to avoid the ridiculous debates that get nowhere due to "believers" not listening to sane rationale. I find it more effective to get them challenging their own misinformed beliefs instilled by family or church. A lot of smart and good people are indoctrinated, and sometimes their freedom comes from challenging them within their notions of their faith before they will ever listen to an atheist. Otherwise the debate is noise, "sound and fury, signifying" no change, only more deeply embedded animosity and hatred for that which is different for them, and I don't feel that will lead them out of their stupor. But, then again, it's better to debate than not to do so. Hopefully, with time, people won't have to live in lies.

  77. Exactly, Johnny. We're just standing up for ourselves. We just want to be rational and reasonable. I, for one, would love to live and let live. But that's not really an option when christians insist on trying to get their nonsense taught in public schools, or try to change the laws of the country to suit their brand of god-fearing religion. That's when people like me say enough is enough. Then we speak out and have to stand up for Reason.

  78. i almost spit my iced tea through my nose after reading that list

  79. I thought this was a great blog post! Realizing we live in a world in which people are interdependent should be all the motivation anyone needs to treat other people and the world in an ethical manner. Needing the commandment of a god to do 'good things' really cheapens these otherwise good actions.