US Law and the 10 Commandments

The following information was offered by my awesome husband Butch to a friend on Facebook (we'll call him Enoch), regarding the 10 commandments. This is what Enoch said:

Why is it when a political candidate is openly religious, people bring up the "separation of church and state?". Read the words. It doesn't say that you can't have a picture of Jesus in a school or the ten commandments in a courthouse. It just says that there will be no government sponsored religion (read Henry VIII establishing the church of england because the Pope wouldn't let him get a divorce). It just means the government can't make you go to a particular church, or any for that matter.

Butch replied:

But putting religious symbols on government property equates to governmental endorsement of that religion.What if the phrase "In God We Trust" on our money, or "Under God" in the Pledge were replaced by "Allah Akbar?" Would you be OK with that? Would you be OK with Naqibs being part of a school's uniforms? Or, if they displayed every religious symbol with equal time & space, would you be OK with an islamic flag & a star of David flying above a cross?

Enoch said:

This country was (partly) founded on the basis of religious freedom. The ability of the individual to worship as they see fit, or not at all. I don't believe that these symbols are an endorsement of religion. You can make the argument that the ten commandments are the basis in one way or another of all of our laws (and the placement of a copy of the ten commandments in a courthouse could be considered an endorsement of judaism, since they are found in the old testament of the bible, which is an interpretation of the jewish torah). True muslim teachings believe that christians and jews are people of the same god, that jesus was just one of the series of prophets like those in the old testament, and that Mohammed was a prophet that followed Jesus. Christians and jews are only infidels because they have not followed the teachings from God handed down through Mohammed. And no, I would not be ok with the replacement of in God we trust or under god (which was added to the original text of the pledge). But a display of multiple religious symbols being given equal time/space I would not have a problem with. The point I was trying to make, however, is that we should be able to look past a political candidates openly displayed choice of religion and look at the greater issues involved. The constitution states that you won't be forced to worship one way or another. We are a country of many faiths, christian, jew, islam, buddhism, etc. And for the argument that it will start I will even state that atheists are people of faith, for they wholeheartedly believe that there is no God. That is an even greater faith than any religion, for even believers can have a lapse of faith while atheists never will.

Egads! Let's see how Butch retorts:

I don't really have a problem with any religious candidate, what I DO have a HUGE problem with is a candidate who even hints that US law should be brought into line with their particular interpretation of biblical law. I feel that once they say that, even if caught accidentally in a private conversation, they should IMMEDIATELY be disqualified from holding any kind of elected office. Again, would you want your Representative or Congressional delegate to be a mullah? I wouldn't. As for the 10 commandments being the basis for the laws in this country, I'm afraid you're mistaken. Regarde: 1)No other gods before me: There is no law anywhere that says you shall have no other gods before the god of the OT. Quite the opposite, in fact, as it's the First Amendment. 2) No graven images: No laws against Idolatry, either. 3) Don't take the lord's name in vain: No law anywhere forbidding using the lord's name in vain. Once again the 1st Amendment. 4) Keep the sabbath holy: No law requiring the honoring of the sabbath either. 5) Honor your father and mother: No law requiring you to honor your parents. 6) Don't kill: Laws against murder predate the OT. It's illegal in non-JudeoChristian countries as well. 7) No adultery: No laws against adultery, otherwise there'd be no porn & 95% of Congress & the Senate would be in prison. 8) Don't steal: Refer to #6 9) Don't bear false witness: The only time it's illegal to lie is when you're giving testimony in a court of law, otherwise refer to #7. 10) Don't covet: Our entire economy is in direct conflict with this one. The entire marketing industry is based on peoples' desire for "better" things. Lastly, saying atheists have faith is wrong. There are too many different types (I'm a skeptic, personally, which means any claim presented to me needs solid evidence as proof) to lump them all together.

I will write about what atheism is and is not next, because this is a common myth.

The 10 Commandments of Logical Fallacies

1. Thou shall not attack the person’s character, but the argument. (Ad hominem)

2. Thou shall not misrepresent or exaggerate a person’s argument in order to make them easier to attack. (Straw man fallacy)

3. Thou shall not use small numbers to represent the whole. (Hasty generalization)

4. Thou shall not argue thy position by assuming one of its premises is true. (Begging the question)

5. Thou shall not claim that because something occurred before, it must be the cause. (Post Hoc/False cause)

6. Thou shall not reduce the argument down to two possibilities. (False dichotomy)

7. Thou shall not argue that because of our ignorance, claim must be true or false. (Ad ignorantium)

8. Thou shall not select only the supporting information and ignore everything that goes against the claim. (Cherry-picking)

9. Thou shall not assume “this” follows “that” when it has no logical connection. (Non sequitur)

10. Thou shall not claim that because a premise is popular, therefore it must be true.(Bandwagon fallacy)

Which logical fallacies do you think belong on this list?

Slightly adapted from here.

The Humanist Ten Commandments

For the book club I belong to, we're reading Good Without God: What a Billion Nonreligious People Do Believe by Greg Epstein. It's basically all about Humanism.

From the AHA: Humanism is a progressive philosophy of life that, without theism and other supernatural beliefs, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead ethical lives of personal fulfillment that aspire to the greater good of humanity. Fred Edwords explains the many different kinds of humanism here, then goes on to explain more about Modern Humanism.

Anyway, in Good Without God, Epstein has a chart of the ten commandments. I wanted to share it with you because I thought the Humanist version was pretty good:

Exodus 20		King James Version		Modern Version		Humanist Version
1		20:2-3 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.		Do not worship any other god.		Seek the best in yourself and in others, and believe in your own ability to make a positive difference in the world.
2		20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.		Do not make or worship idols or images of God.		Pursue truth and honesty in all you do; and be wary of allowing power, status or possessions to substitute for moral courage, dignity and goodness.
3		20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.		Do not misuse the name of God.		Be positive and constructive rather than negative and disrespectful.
4		20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.		Keep the sabbath day holy. You must rest on that day each week.		To be healthy, you must balance work, play and rest.
5		20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.		Honor your father and mother.		All members of the family should respect each other.
6		20:13 Thou shalt not kill.		Do not commit murder.		Same.
7		20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.		Do not be unfaithful to your husband or wife.		Same.
8		20:15 Thou shalt not steal.		Do not steal.		Same.
9		20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.		Do not lie or speak badly about others.		Same.
10		20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.		Do not be jealous of other people, and do not desire other people's spouses, houses, or anything else they have.		When you see nice things owned by others, let them be your inspiration, rather than a source of bad feelings. If there are things that you want, work hard to get them.

Epstein goes through each one of these and explains in much more detail what they mean.

I rather like most of the Humanist version. I especially like 1, 2, 3, 4, and 10. I have problems with 5 though.

The New Ten Commandments

Awhile ago I wrote about the 10 commandments. I then rewrote them for my personal moral code, calling them Neece's Principles. No need to have anyone commanding anyone.

Christopher Hitchens just wrote a 3 page piece for Vanity Fair about the 10 commandments titled The New Commandments. He goes through the KJV version and talks about where they are good and where they are not so good. Here is his summation:

What emerges from the first review is this: the Ten Commandments were derived from situational ethics. They show every symptom of having been man-made and improvised under pressure. They are addressed to a nomadic tribe whose main economy is primitive agriculture and whose wealth is sometimes counted in people as well as animals. They are also addressed to a group that has been promised the land and flocks of other people: the Amalekites and Midianites and others whom God orders them to kill, rape, enslave, or exterminate. And this, too, is important because at every step of their arduous journey the Israelites are reminded to keep to the laws, not because they are right but just because they will lead them to become conquerors (of, as it happens, almost the only part of the Middle East that has no oil).

So here is a rundown of how he fixes them:

• One to Three can go, "since they have nothing to do with morality and are no more than a long, rasping throat clearing by an admittedly touchy dictator. Mere fear of unseen authority is not a sound basis for ethics." (the invisible sky daddy flexes his muscles and demands worship.).


• He also says we don't have to ban sculpture and art (idols).


• Four. Gone. Pointless. (don't work on the sabbath, except black sabbath, of course!)


• Five, respect elders, sure. But also ban child abuse. What a concept! (I'd add that parents should only get respect like anyone else, when they earn it.)


• Six, taken care of by modern law. Don't murder. (Don't kill under almost all circumstances.) (although I think assisted suicide for terminally ill people should be legal)


• Seven, he seems to destroy too.  (adultery) (and yeah, what about saying rape is bad? especially pedophilia and that kind of stuff?)


• Eight, ok. This one is good. Don't steal. (stealing)


• Nine, don't lie. Also basically good. (lying about your neighbor)


• Ten, women aren't property. This one is pointless and harmful in that it makes you a sinner just from your thoughts. (don't lust after your neighbor's goods or wife)

Other evils of human society that should be denounced, according to Hitchens:

• genocide


• slavery


• rape


• child abuse


• sexual repression


• white-collar crime


• wanton destruction of the natural world


• people who talk on cell phones in restaurants (and movie theatres, or who talk on the phone or text while driving!)


• people who blow themselves up while shouting 'god is great!' (and any other kind of jihadism or crusade)


• racism


• using people as private property


• condemning people for their inborn nature (like homosexuality, etc)

And this is how he finishes:

"Be willing to renounce any god or any religion if any holy commandments should contradict any of the above. In short: Do not swallow your moral code in tablet form."

Good advice! I think I stand by the principles I came up with for myself. What are yours? Do you agree with Christopher Hitchens?

Neece's Principles

Remember awhile ago I asked you to think about a list of your personal 10 commandments? For atheists, we certainly aren't going to look to the bible for our moral guidance, so we have to put in a bit more thought. What rules, morals or virtues do we choose to live by? I decided to call my list principles because it's a better word than commandments.

Principles: a personal or specific basis of conduct or management

Neece's Principles

1. Treat others as you would like to be treated. (Golden Rule)
2. Do not treat others as you would not like to be treated. (Silver Rule)
3. Treat others as they want to be treated, in their best interest. (Platinum Rule, modified by Neece)
4. Learn from your mistakes, and when possible, learn from the mistakes of others.
5. Choose your battles.
6. Be pragmatic
7. If it harms no one, do what you like. (do no harm) (Wiccan Rede)
8. Think critically. Think for yourself. Be skeptical. Question everything.
9. Learn as much as you can. Never stop learning.
10. Strive to be your best, and to improve yourself whenever possible.

The last 3 might seem a bit wordy or weak. I haven't really decided. So I thought I'd show you what I have so far and see if you have any ideas for what you'd do to the list. I need to have it in perfect working order by Saturday evening, so please let me know what you think soon.

My Personal 10 Commandments

Butch and I had Brent and Tim (my fellow Morgantown Atheists cohorts) over for dinner the other night. (oh, and Tim brought his standard poodle Lucy, who was highly interesting to my crazy mutts. They were in love with her sexy Frenchness!) Anyway, over pizza, Tim challenged me to come up with my own personal list of 10 Commandments. The New 10 Commandments.

First let's look at the old fashioned set that so many people want festooned on government property to hopefully force everyone to be good, obedient, god-fearing christians.

According to the bible, there are 3 sets of commandments by Moses' god. (see Wikipedia's page here)

• Exodus 20:2-17


• Exodus 34:11-27


• Deuteronomy 5:6-21

Most of these commandments are the words of an angry, jealous, childish god. They aren't helpful, moral or ethical. They don't advance us as a species. In fact they hold us back with threats and superstitions.

So here's my task, which I will gladly share with you:

Conversations With christians - Beth 5 - Around Again!

Hey everyone! Beth is back for more! I just got her email a bit ago, which is not really good timing. My parents are getting here tomorrow about the time that I get up, so I really don't have any time to reply in detail. But that shouldn't stop you from commenting or emailing replies to heavingdeadcats@gmail.com. I'll be happy to incorporate your replies into the post as well as my reply to her. I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round here!

Here is the email in its entirety. She is replying to my statements (from Conversations With christians 4a) which are not in block quotes:
~
Whether you agree to the label or not is irrelevant. It doesn't make it any less true. What history and science resources are you looking at to come to these conclusions? How are you so sure that you are getting the whole story? Please give some of your resources. I am quite curious as to what you're reading to come to such wild opinions. For instance, name one contemporary document from Jesus' time that refers to him. Better yet, name one person who wrote about meeting him, outside of the gospels. You can't because no such documents or evidence exists. Since you insist that he existed, that he was magical and had special powers and rose from the dead, the Burden of Proof is on you, as you are making the positive claim. Please provide references. Simple inflammatory statements are baseless.

No, I do not agree to the label because your accusation that I am "cherry picking" is baseless in itself. Whether you want to acknowledge that or not is unimportant, however. It does not change the fact you are wrong.

I will gladly share my sources with you. One I use quite frequently is tektonics.org. It has great articles that address many of the issues you appear to have with Jesus and the New Testament especially. Furthermore, I'd like to establish that while I do not doubt that Jesus once walked the earth that the rest, as far as him being the son of God, performing miracles, and being resurrected is all a matter of faith. I cannot prove that to you.

Why didn't jesus write anything down himself? He was a god-man after all. Why not document his life and teachings to share for future sheep to get his message accurately? Why rely on flawed men to write things down 40-80 years after his supposed death? This doesn't bother you in the slightest? You don't find it odd?

Conversations With christians - Beth 4a - With A Little Help From My Friends

So below you'll find the latest email from Beth, which I posted the other day. After chilling out and thinking happy thoughts, I am ready to tackle it with your help. My replies, mixed with your comments, are added below. I am wondering though, why Beth is still talking to me? What is your opinion? Is she trying to get me to change my mind and find the lord? It's obviously not to learn anything. What could be her motivation? I have no idea. Your suggestions are welcome, as usual.

I will never agree with you that I am “cherry picking” as I am not. In fact I was discussing it with another person of no faith and they even wondered how you drew such a conclusion. The Bible, as I stated in earlier messages, is nothing more then a compilation of documents put together by men. As we both concurred, the Holy Book is not without fault and was subject to being edited wrongly. Therefore I turn to history and science to determine what books are authentic and which are not. I do intend to look at what you suggested. I’ve honestly never come across it before. It will definetely be an asset to my research.

Whether you agree to the label or not is irrelevant. It doesn't make it any less true. What history and science resources are you looking at to come to these conclusions? How are you so sure that you are getting the whole story? Please give some of your resources. I am quite curious as to what you're reading to come to such wild opinions. For instance, name one contemporary document from Jesus' time that refers to him. Better yet, name one person who wrote about meeting him, outside of the gospels. You can't because no such documents or evidence exists. Since you insist that he existed, that he was magical and had special powers and rose from the dead, the Burden of Proof is on you,  as you are making the positive claim. Please provide references. Simple inflammatory statements are baseless.

Why didn't jesus write anything down himself? He was a god-man after all. Why not document his life and teachings to share for future sheep to get his message accurately? Why rely on flawed men to write things down 40-80 years after his supposed death? This doesn't bother you in the slightest? You don't find it odd?

How Many Gods Are In The Bible?

Let's start with what is probably the most famous and most used excerpt from the Bible: the ten commandments. Actually all we really need is the first commandment. Exodus 20 verses 2-4 are typically what comprises the first commandment: "I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image." I think the second sentence (Exodus 20:3) says it all; Yahweh admits there are other gods, but tells his people he is number one.

Christians vehemently subscribe to the view that the Bible proves the existence of Yahweh. They also view all other gods as fake or myths.

Does the Bible ever actually say the others are fake gods? This might just be arguing technicalities, but as I recall the Bible refers to them as false gods. In fact most of the time the Bible doesn't even imply that much, often just referring to them as gods.

This seems to indicate that Yahweh (or at least the Bible authors) knew these other gods existed. Yahweh does mention that he is jealous (who would he have to jealous of besides other gods), and that his people should worship no other gods before him. The theme seems to repeat often through the Old Testament: acknowledgment of other gods, and then reinforcing that they are the wrong gods.

If the Bible provides repeated 'proof' of Yahweh, doesn't this same argument work as proof of other gods? Especially when you consider that Yahweh himself acknowledges the existence of these other gods.

So based on this information, couldn't we imply that anyone who believes in the existence of Yahweh should thus believe in the existence of these other gods? Even if they don't worship these other gods, wouldn't it make sense to concede they exist?

But how many other gods are there in the Bible? Probably more than you think, and definitely more than most Christians think.

Some of the Gods Mentioned in the Bible not an exhaustive list
Adrammelech	II Kings 17:31	Sepharvite sun god (day to Anammelech's night).
Anammelech	II Kings 17:31	Sepharvite lunar goddess (night to Adrammelech's day).
Asherah	II Kings 23:6 & Jeremiah 7:18	Yahweh's consort; the mother goddess and "queen of heaven."
Ashima	II Kings 17:30	Samaritan lunar goddess.
Ashtoreth	I Kings 11:05	Canaanite goddess (version of Ishtar).
Baal or Ba'al	I Kings 18:19	Canaanite god ("lord" or "master") of fertility, vegetation, and storms.
Baal-berith	Judges 8:33	A regional variation/aspect of Baal.
Baal-Peor	Numbers 25:03	Moabite regional variation/aspect of Baal.
Baal-zebub	Luke 11:19	Philistine/Ekronian regional variation/aspect of Baal.
Baalim	I Kings 18:18	Canaanite gods ("lords" or "masters"), a collective of the different aspects of Baal.
Bel	Isiah 46:01	Assyrian/Babylonian/Sumerian god ("lord" or "master") aspect of Baal.
Chemosh	I Kings 11:07	Moabite war god.
Dagon	I Samuel 05:02	Philistine/Ekronian/Babylonian god of grain and agriculture.
Diana of the Ephesians	Acts 19:35	Ephesian moon and nature goddess, (equivalent of the Greeks Artemis).
Jupiter	Acts 14:12	King of the Roman gods.
Mercurius	Acts 14:12	Roman god of communication and travel, and messenger of the gods. Also known as Mercury.
Milcom	I Kings 11:05 & 07	Ammonite god of fire (also known as Moloch, Molech, Molekh, or Molek).
Nebo or Nebu	Isiah 46:01	Assyrian/Babylonian/Chaldean god of wisdom and writing (Some scholars think Moses may be a humanized adaption of Nebu).
Nergal	II Kings 17:30	Cuth/Assyrian/Babylonian war and underworld god.
Nibhaz	II Kings 17:31	Avites god.
Nisroch	II Kings 19:37	Assyrian god of agriculture; also called Dagon, and could be a different version of Nusku.
Rimmon	II Kings 05:18	Babylonian/Syrian storm god; also known as Ramman or Rammon, and most likely an alternate version of Baal.
Succoth-benoth	II Kings 17:30	Babylonian fertility goddess ("she who produces seed").
Tammuz	Ezekial 8:14	Assyrian/Babylonian/Sumerian god of food and vegetation.
Tartak	II Kings 17:31	Avites god.

Then there is Yahweh, how many names can one god have? Besides Yahweh (YHWH) there's the mistranslated Jehovah, the coincidentally plural Adonai, the name given to Moses as Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh, then Elohim and El with all their sub-forms, the poetic combination of El and Yahweh Elyon, the name given to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as Shaddai (and there are more).

There was even a time when he was referred to as The Seven: Eloah, Elohim, Adonai, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh, Yahweh, Shaddai, Zebaot.

I've run down a side tangent a little now, but think about this for a moment: Is Yahweh even a monotheistic god? You really could argue that he is almost polytheistic. From the Jewish take on him, look at all these different aspects and versions; seems more like multiple gods they tried to cram into one. Then from the Christian take, look at the father, the son, and the holy ghost; seems like its just taking multiple gods and forcing them all into a single being.

Just a final note, check these contradictions on Skeptics Annotated Bible; seems the verses for multiple gods far outweigh the verses for a single god.

Thanks to Norbert Sykes for the original list.

On A Lighter Note

Some people are just brilliant and funny at the same time. George Carlin was one of those people.

Here is a video (about 10 minutes long) from one of his standup specials where he talks about how religion is bullshit: