Showing posts with label Agnostic. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Agnostic. Show all posts

Agnostic Atheist Skeptic

Recently, I wrote about Richard Dawkin's handy Spectrum of Theistic Probability. I found it useful to help me figure out what kind of atheist I am. (I rate myself as a 6.9 De Facto Atheist). I also find it helpful to understand where someone is coming from if they call themselves a 1 or a 7, because that means they "know" the unknowable and unprovable.

But last night I was reading over my notes of the first half  of The Believing Brain by Michael Shermer, before going to the second half. I wanted to share one bit with you from page 176:
Of course, no one is agnostic behaviorally. When we act in the world, we act as if there is a God or as if there is no God, so by default we must make a choice, if not intellectually then at least behaviorally. To this extent, I assume that there is no God and I live my life accordingly, which makes me an atheist. In other words, agnosticism is an intellectual position, a statement about the existence or nonexistence of the deity and our ability to know it with certainty, whereas atheism is a behavioral position, a statement about what assumptions we make  about the world in which we behave.

... I prefer [Skeptic] as my label. A skeptic simply does not believe a knowledge claim until sufficient evidence is presented to reject the null hypothesis (that a knowledge claim is not true until proven otherwise). I do not know that there is no God, but I do not believe in God, and have good reasons to think that the concept of God is socially and psychologically constructed.

That makes perfect sense to me. The thing about calling yourself an atheist is you're just saying one very specific thing; that you don't believe in god/gods. It's a negative statement that doesn't say much at all, really. It's helpful, but only to a point. And what other concept is defined by what you don't believe? I don't believe in leprechauns, so does that make me Aleprechaunistic?

I think that I have been slowly getting away from labeling myself as atheist first,  more to calling myself a skeptic first. I prefer it for the same reasons that Shermer does. It says that I highly value critical thinking, science and reason. It says what matters to me and how I approach the world.

Of course, people abuse the term all the time, mainly through ignorance. But if simply defined as Michael does above, then it's accurately saying a lot.

I know some of you don't like labels at all. But labels are how we understand things. For example, I labeled the drink I had this morning as coffee. It conveys information that can be useful. And for beliefs it says something about where I'm coming from. I label myself a humanist, which says a lot to someone, as does labeling myself a Formula One fan, etc. It can be very positive and shouldn't be shunned completely. It's just helpful information.

So, how do you identify yourself? Is there an order (as I find I have now) of how you want to be known, or how you see yourself?

EDIT: After the first several comments, I just want to add that I am happy to call myself an atheist. And I think atheists need to own the word just like people who are homosexual now proudly own "gay". Atheist Pride! Hey, most of us became atheists through tough critical thinking, reasoning and logic. We worked hard to get where we are. Of course, you could say the same for skeptics, which I'm also proud to call myself.

So don't think I'm encouraging you to walk on eggshells and use skeptic over atheist. Use them both! I like how MJ in the comments below said they use atheist out in the world and skeptic in the atheist movement. I have been doing something similar. I use the term that is most appropriate to the situation. Sometimes I feel they are all necessary and I call myself (deep breath) an atheist/skeptic/freethinker/humanist.

Also, I wanted this post to be short and sweet and focus mainly on the terms. But in the comments you've been right to point out that it really matters on the definition of God(s) being referred to. Are we talking about Yahweh/Allah/Jehovah? If you look just to the bible, he's been refuted. Are you talking about a deist sort of god? No, he can't be refuted because evidence of that god would be indistinguishable from natural events. Of course, when you talk to religious people, most are so wishy-washy, and move the goalposts as if they were seaweed at the edge of the sea at high tide, that I'm exhausted just thinking about it. But awesome atheists like Christopher Hitchens have thoughtfully torn down such fallacious arguments time and again.

So own the word atheist and skeptic, too!

Do We Choose To Not Believe?

A couple of weeks ago I wrote Spot On!, which was about Alise Wright's list of assumptions for Christians not to make about Atheists. I thought they were excellent.

There was one little thing that she said though, that has spurred a follow up post on her own blog, about Free Will and Faith. She said,
Most atheists who have “deconverted” from a religious background have studied it and other religions thoroughly before choosing not to believe.

Mikespeir, in the comments, called attention to this:
If I have any reservations at all about this, it’s that “choosing not to believe” hung off the end there. I never chose not to believe. Once I realized I didn’t believe anymore I chose not to keep practicing the Christian religion. That was the choice involved.

I agree with Mike. I never chose not to believe.

Of course, I agree with Alise that we seem to have some say in our actions. We choose to read certain books/information (the bible1 and/or Dawkins), attend different events (either church or TAM2), and we choose the people we associate with.

I have to throw in here, that this assumes that we have free will. I have learned in the past year that we most likely don't. We are determined by a myriad of previous factors. But I won't get into that here. 

Spectrum of Theistic Probability

Recently on my FB page, I mentioned that I guess I'm an agnostic atheist. I really don't like the term though, but out of that short scale, it's the best fit for me. I was then told about Richard Dawkin's Spectrum of Theistic Probability which I had never heard of, since I haven't read The God Delusion yet.

This scale is really interesting so I thought I'd share it with you in case you live under a rock like I do. Dawkins says that the existence of God is a scientific hypothesis. Is it? I thought a hypothesis was an idea that could be tested. How can we test for a god? Anyway, here is a spectrum of probabilities between two extremes of certainty which are represented by seven milestones along the way.

Here are the seven milestones.

  1. Strong theist. 100 per cent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung: "I do not believe, I know."

  2. De facto theist. Very high probability but short of 100 per cent. "I cannot know for certain, but I strongly believe in God and live my life on the assumption that he is there."

  3. Agnostic leaning towards theism. Higher than 50 per cent but not very high. Technically agnostic but leaning towards theism. "I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God."

  4. Completely impartial agnostic. Exactly 50 per cent.  "God's existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable."

  5. Agnostic leaning towards atheism. Lower than 50 per cent but not very low. Technically agnostic but leaning towards atheism. "I do not know whether God exists but I'm inclined to be skeptical."

  6. De facto atheist. Very low probability, but short of zero.  "I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable, and I live my life on the assumption that he is not there."

  7. Strong atheist. "I know there is no God, with the same conviction as Jung 'knows' there is one."


I think, like Dawkins, if you are an atheist who values evidence, you would avoid labeling yourself a 7. Dawkins considers himself to be a 6 and I am comfortable with calling myself a De facto atheist as well.

Because, after all, I am an atheist based on lack of evidence of gods. If there were verifiable, repeatable evidence from a god (and I could prove it wasn't hallucinations, delusions, insanity, etc), and everyone saw God, well, it would have to be pretty substantial, but if there were extraordinary evidence that was repeatable and verifiable, then I guess I'd have to change my mind.

Where do you fall on the scale? Why? And what would it take for you to change your mind?

Vote For Your Favorite Atheist and Agnostic Resources

I just learned about About.com's Reader's Choice Awards. For the Agnostic/Atheist Awards, you can nominate your favorites. You simply write in your choice for each subject. If there's a resource you use and like, send them a little love.

For podcasts, I've recommended both of these to you in the past:

Here are the subjects, each regarding Atheist/Agnostic resources:

  • Best Book of 2010

  • Best Blog

  • Best Podcast

  • Best Website

  • Best Atheist/Agnostic to follow on Twitter

  • Best Facebook Page

  • Best Social Networking Website

  • Best Forum

  • Best Ad


So go vote then come back here and tell us who you like best in each category so we can expand our horizons.

Australia's New Prime Minister is Not Religious!

My friend Kevin lives in Australia and sent me a message this morning about their new prime minister Down Under. Julia Gillard is the first female prime minister of Australia, AND this is what she says about her personal life:

Gillard has never married or had children.  Her partner since 2006, Tim Mathieson, is a hairdresser. Gillard said through a spokeswoman that she was a "non-practising Baptist" and "not religious". She is tolerant of public interest in her personal life, stating that "People want to know who you are, the shape of your life. That is legitimate."


Very interesting! Australia has voted in a woman who is Not Religious! How did that happen? That's wonderful! She is the first person in high politics I've ever heard of who has said that.

Let's hope she does a great job and that other "non-religious" politicians follow suit and run for high offices and succeed. I wonder if we could ever get that far here in America? Wow, I'm really reaching for the stars now!

Good luck, Julia. I hope you do great things in your run as prime minister.

A New Pew Religion Survey

There is a new Pew Survey about religion of people coming of age around the year 2000 (called the Millenials) out. It's quite interesting. I've included some of the charts and tables for you.

What is interesting is how the Millenials are less affiliated, but they still believe in the afterlife, miracles, angels and demons to a high degree. I think that's where atheism is lacking for a lot of people; that comfort that there's more to life than just the natural, that life doesn't just end when we take our last breath. Personally I find that it makes life much more precious.

Let's see some charts and tables!

Note that in the Unaffiliated group are the Religious Unaffiliated, people who describe their faith as "nothing in particular" but say that religion is somewhat or very important in their lives. Whatever that means.

If you take out the religious unaffiliated, you still get a much higher group of unaffiliated than the general population. :) Note how few people are still willing to label themselves as atheists. :(


Another chart showing age composition of religions.

Holiday Cards For Atheists and Nontheists

Hey Everyone! Sorry for the delay in posting but things got a bit crazy here. My friend Will and I were interviewed for WV Public Radio the other day and that kept me busy getting ready. I will be sure to link you to the broadcast when it goes live next week. It was regarding our billboard and new organization, the Morgantown Coalition of Reason, that I've mentioned. It's been keeping me quite busy.

Anyway, the other thing that has kept me busy is thinking of the holidays that are fast approaching. While I like getting together with friends and family and celebrating, I don't like the religious nature of it all (of course). One thing that really frustrates me is the card selection.

So I decided to try my hand at designing some irreverent cards! I dug through my favorite winter pictures that I've taken over the years, then came up with some messages for nontheists (with the help of my most awesome husband Butch, of course), and uploaded them to Zazzle.

I would like to do a few more, but these are a good start, I think. If you have ideas you'd like to see created, feel free to comment or Email Me.

~ Begin Shameless Promotion Here~

Just Be Good For Goodness Sake! Three cards with original photography by © ZeNeece and 3 slightly different messages.











See inside messages and matching stamps as well as postcards:

Mr. Deity and the Skeptic! (Michael Shermer)

Mr. Deity is awesome. Here's the latest with guest Michael Shermer, PhD:



If you haven't seen all the episodes, they do sort of build on each other. You can subscribe to them on iTunes (search for Mr. Deity) or you can go to MrDeity.com to catch up. Season 2 is only available there now, I believe. So go watch them and get a chuckle!

Happy Atheists! Survey Finds We're As Happy As Nuns

funny-pictures-cat-is-so-happyI have all this information to share with you, but I haven't had a chance to organize it properly. So I've decided to kind of throw it out to you with a few notes and let you process it at your leisure, instead of wait any longer. Last month the results of a survey were released. The survey was all about the godless and it was done by Professor Luke Galen.

Luke Galen does a podcast called Reasonable Doubts with two other awesome guys, Jeremy Beahan and David Fletcher. I love this podcast and have been listening to all the past episodes to try to catch up. Just recently I listened to episode 32, Profiles of the Godless where Dr. Galen addressed CFI Michigan with his results. This was recorded back in January of this year, before his paper was published. I highly recommend listening to the podcast as it makes the data come together to make sense.

Along with the podcast, you can look at Luke Galen's pdf presentation that he used for the talk. Note: He has zero sense of color or graphic design. The charts are pretty painful to look at. But if you follow along with them while you listen to the podcast it really helps. Use eyedrops to keep your eyes from bleeding. lol

Another take on the data is presented by the Center for Inquiry. They did a press release last month and summed it up briefly. And here is a 5 page pdf of the results that won't make your eyes bleed. It's mostly text as opposed to charts.

LukeThis study was really awesome. First, it looked at nonbelievers in all their different aspects and iterations. How many of us still claim to be spiritual, etc? And the chart I found most awesome was how atheists find themselves to be relatively happy (life satisfaction, page 16 of the pdf). The interesting bit there is that people who are comfortable and rather set in their belief or nonbelief are much happier than people who doubt, like agnostics. In other words, being certain in your belief or nonbelief of god(s) helps with emotional stability.

I did come to the conclusion that I'm a bit of a statistical anomoly, though. Most atheists tend to be white men who have higher education and make good money. The only thing I have in common with them is that they have fewer children (Oh, I'm white, too. LOL) So yeah, I'm a white woman with only a bit of college, mostly self-educated, I'm not spiritual in the least (whereas most female atheists also claim to be spiritual), I'm a housewife, and I have no kids. So I guess I'm not your typical atheist.

Dr. Galen also looks into the issue of labels, which I find interesting. We have friends that call themselves Brights and avoid the A word. And I would never call myself a Bright and am proud to be called Atheist. Some people like to be called Humanist or spiritual. So he looks into that. When forced to pick just one label, a lot of people chose atheist which was interesting.

I'd love to see this go further, to ask even more questions of atheists. Maybe then it wouldn't be so hard for us to come together, to unite for common causes.

What do you think? Your thoughts are welcome, as usual. :)

I Have 2 Dogs, But Neither Is god. I'm Sure.

1718295_222350_110564f499_pI'm bored. I have about 5 matters I should be attending to, but I'm uninspired to tackle any of them at the long end of a productive day. So I'm doing what every self-respecting blogger/Geekess/hermit does. I'm stumbling the internet.

Oh, and now is the time to remind you that I officially live under a rock. Someday I'll take a picture of my rock so you can see how nice it is. But suffice it to say, I'm not a newshound, always up on the latest and greatest of everything.

So in my stumbles I come across a BusinessDay article, a South African paper. This is how I learned this awesome explanation of the difference between an atheist, 2 kinds of agnostics, and a theist. Here we go:
The difference between an atheist, an agnostic and a theist can be summarized by their responses to the question: do you have a dog?

The atheist will simply answer, “No”. If you go to his house to search for a dog, you won’t find one. There will be no signs in the house or the yard that there ever was a dog there. None of his relatives or friends will remember having seen a dog there. They’ll ask, “Does he have a dog? How could I not have known?” And they’ll be absolutely right. There are no signs that there could ever have been a dog at the atheist’s house or indeed anywhere where he spends his time. Not at his home, not at his work, nowhere.

The agnostic who thinks that there’s simply insufficient proof for either having or not having a dog will be a great deal less certain.

"Imagine No Religion" is Blasphemous?

stoopid-incurableFreedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF.org) recently put up a billboard near Pell City, Alabama. One of their classics, modifying a line from one of John Lennon's songs: "Imagine No Religion."

The sign is located on east-bound I-20 just past the Pell City exit. Atheist billboards really are nothing new, especially to those of us in the atheist community. What makes this one notable is that it is believed to be a first in Alabama; and is one of a very few in a bible-belt state. Eleanor Strote commented "A lot of people didn't even know there was an atheist group in town. And they do now."

FFRF local chapter president, Pat Cleveland said it is not meant to be a recruiting tool, but meant to inform. "There are people of no religion in Alabama. I'm one of them." This is a way to let atheists, agnostics, and non-believers know there is a group for them in the bible-belt, "more like a member information campaign."

The local news coverage tries to sound unbiased, but when they refer to the billboard as 'impious' and 'irreverent' its obvious even they are against it. Shall we take a look at how Atheist [Bus & Billboard] Campaign got started? FFRF placed their first billboard in Wisconsin in October 2007. However the real 'war' started after JesusSaid.org ran bus advertisements inviting people to their website (in mid-2008). Upon visiting the website, people were greeted with the bold statement that "all non-Christians would burn in hell for all eternity." Way to be respectful, pious, and reverent there Christians!

Happy Treaty of Tripoli Day!

kitty_wigThe Treaty of Tripoli was negotiated while George Washington was president; eventually ratified by the U.S. Senate on June 7th, 1797; and then signed by President John Adams on June 10th, 1797. Although this treaty is no longer in effect today, Article 11 provides some significant insight into the infancy of the United States as a nation.


Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

How Do You Reconcile Belief and Rationality - A Survey

Yesterday I wrote about how different atheists got their stripes, how we all came to the top of the religious mountain by our own path, and how we still all think differently and rationalize in our own ways. I created a survey of 6 questions to start a conversation about this topic. You can take the survey here, or over where I made it at Quibblo. It shouldn't take too long. I really value your input. Comments are also welcome, of course! :)



I tried to add a question about superstition but I ran out of time. So feel free to comment on if you're superstitious or not, and/or atheist/religious! Thanks muchly!

Click more for the results:

The Christian Questionnaire



This is so clever, I have to share it with you. We all need to keep copies of this to hand to those pesky christians trying to convert us to their cult: The Christian Proselytizer Questionnaire:
If you're reading this paper, it means I've given it to you because you were proselytizing to me and you are a Christian. I'm giving you this paper to save us both some time; you see, I'm not a Christian, although I used to be. I'm a secular humanist, and I became one for both logical and emotive reasons.

Since I've been a Christian, I do know quite a bit about the religion, although I might not know much about your particular sect. (I use the word sect instead of the word denomination because I think it unfair that Christians get denominations, which is a nice-sounding word, while everyone else gets sects, which is an evil-sounding word.) I became a non-Christian because I didn't like what I knew about the Christian religion. If you want to even begin attempting to convert me, you have to settle those problems. Specifically, you have to answer the questions below. Answers to each question should be typed or neatly handwritten on a separate sheet (or sheets) of paper, and no answer should exceed 100 words. This is because one of the reasons I left Christianity is that it was so complex, and I've found that the simplest answer to a question is usually the right one. Quotes from scripture count for bonus points as long as you can refute other quotes from scripture that contradict the passage that you are quoting. If you return this paper to me personally, or if you mail it to me, and if I think that your answers justify my return to Christianity, then I will get in touch with you.

Confessions Of A Recovering Woo Addict

Lately I've been talking to Jane. (not her real name) I am having trouble talking to her, and I think I figured out why. We knew each other about 10 years ago in a state far, far away. We were acquaintances, but we had a lot in common. (here's where I tell you some dark secrets) We were into many different kinds of woo.

Woo: (n or adj) when you uncritically believe unsubstantiated or unfounded ideas. Short for woo woo, according to the Urban Dictionary, definition 4.

I was into reiki, divination, numerology, you name it. While I was an agnostic back then, I still clung to the idea of a kind of Universal Energy. Not really an intelligence, but kind of "magical" principles to energy that science just hadn't quantified or qualified yet. I held to the beliefs that ancient societies knew secrets that had been lost. Like the Chinese were better at medicine than modern science, or the Mayans had some secret knowledge about the Universe that we were missing out on, as seen in their calendar stopping in 2012.

Hypocrisy

Why is it that people who put on such a show of high moral character and fine virtues are usually the dirtiest fighters, the biggest bullies, and the first to whine and cry when something might possibly be a little less than fair? Hypocrisy. That's why. And I hate it. To me it's one of the REAL 7 Deadly Sins.

Hypocrisy: noun- a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.

I watch several different sports. I have a passion for Formula One racing, MMA, boxing, College football and NFL football. I've noticed parallels between sports, religion and politics.

While I love these sports, I do watch them differently than my husband does. I get interested in different players or drivers or fighters while he is more interested in other things that are beyond my poor female brain. I'm explaining how I watch them because I think that's how I've noticed this thing about hypocrisy.

Webster's Dictionary is Biased Towards Christianity

Words and how you use them are very important. The pen IS mightier than the sword in many respects. For example, 99.999% of atheists are stamped with the militant label wrongly. People hear that word and then wrongly associate atheists with the idea that most of us are fighting and being aggressive against believers. With that one word, they've labeled us as waging a "war" against them.

This is ludicrous and terribly backwards. By labeling us, they have started the "holy war" against atheists. Not us. In my 39 years, I've never met a militant atheist. But I have seen and dealt with many militant, close-minded, hateful, fundamentalist religious folks.

So words are very important.

Hess was looking up synonyms for atheist on Dictionary.com for our new project (as you can see, we settled on Heaving Dead Cats) and pointed out something rather irritating.

Why I'm An Atheist, Not An Agnostic

Stumbling around the web, I came across a page at lukeprog.com titled The Arrogance of Atheism. I almost moved on, but then I saw the subtitle: Why I'm an atheist, not an agnostic. Luke writes a page that is simple and concise, yet totally makes sense. I contacted him and asked him if I could share it with you. So here it is in its entirety:



The Arrogance of Atheism
Why I’m an atheist, not an agnostic.

When I tell people I’m an atheist, they say, “How can you be so arrogant to think that you know God doesn’t exist? At least say you’re an agnostic and admit that you can’t know for sure one way or the other.”

Atheism! How arrogant!

But is it?