A Solution To My Problem

I mentioned my frustration with people insisting on debating (arguing) with me the other day in a post called A Revelation.

Well, I posted it to the HDC Facebook Page and got some suggestions there as well. One by Susan is a video clip that I think is the most awesome response to most of the arguments I have had to try to deal with:



This is the principal in Billy Madison. I've never seen the movie but it's quite helpful. I have a feeling I will want to link to this video often in the future! HA!

Thanks so much, Susan!

What I Stand For and What I Believe

One of my Facebook friends, Mark, wrote a note the other day about what he believes and what he stands for. He inspired me and I decided to do the same:

I don't believe in nothing. I believe in grand concepts like the pursuit of love and happiness. I believe in finding simple joys in everyday things.

I embrace knowledge and growth through learning as much as possible. I love science and the scientific method, which although flawed, is still the best tool we've got to understand our fantastic universe and our place in it. I am a citizen scientist.

I require evidence for claims and refuse to accept things on faith or authority. I am a skeptic.

But I am a true skeptic. Many times in the past I've changed my views based on evidence that showed that my old thinking was wrong. I constantly work on detaching my ego from my world view.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and since there is zero credible evidence for any gods or the supernatural, I don't believe in them. I don't believe in the supernatural in any sense. No gods, no heaven, no hell, no demons, no ghosts, no psychic powers. I am a skeptical atheist.

A Universe Not Made For Us: Carl Sagan

I found this video the other day and wanted to share it with you. It's Carl Sagan reading from his book, Pale Blue Dot: A Vision of the Human Future in Space, from the chapter titled A Universe Not Made For Us.



I read a Terry Pratchett book recently called Reaper Man (it was great, of course). In it, he said, "In the Ramtop village where they dance the real Morris dance, for example, they believe that no one is finally dead until the ripples they cause in the world die away - until the clock he wound up winds down, until the wine she made has finished its ferment, until the crop they planted is harvested. The span of someone's life, they say, is only the core of their actual existence."

In that sense, Carl Sagan is still very much alive.

Advertisements and Logical Fallacies Part 1

Lately I've been thinking about logical fallacies used in advertising and marketing. The argument from authority when someone in a lab coat tells you what to buy, argumentum ad populum which is "appeal to the people" because everyone else is buying this product so you should too.

One of my pet peeves is multigrain labels emblazoned on foods lately. Technically the food has more than one grain in it, but they are touting the product as something healthy when they have still stripped all fiber and goodness out, so the health benefits are still lacking. This is very popular in cereals, and unless you read the label you'd think you were buying something healthy, when really it's just as junky as cocoa puffs.

The "no sugar added" label is another one I find quite vague. There are several different iterations of this one. No sugar added, sugar free, the list goes on. What do they all mean? Again, you have to carefully read the nutrition facts and ingredients to get a better picture of what you'll be buying.

I guess it's basically the idea that advertisers must follow the letter of the law but not the spirit of it. So for something like Airborne (which I've ranted about before), they can make vague claims that basically say nothing to skirt the issue that there is no science behind their product. Then, to make it worse, they strategically make sure it's placed near the pharmacy to appeal to authority. I think in some places they have signs saying that pharmacists recommend Airborne. But really, to make that claim you only have to pay two pharmacists to say what you want to be truthful.

I find it all incredibly frustrating and discouraging. And the only solution is to be aggressively proactive about shopping and watching ads or commercials. Be skeptical!

This is part one of tackling this topic for three reasons.

• One, I don't think we can do it justice in one post.


• Two, I really want your feedback. What are your pet peeves in advertising? What examples stand out for you? What logical fallacies do you see in advertising and marketing?


• And three, I just got the new parts for my computer and have to build my newer, better, faster computer today (with the help of my geek friend, Gary. Thanks Gary!). :P This is my birthday present from my sweetie. Thanks, my love! :D

Ok, I'm off to go fiddle with my new computer parts. Hopefully it all goes well. I look forward to hearing from you about fallacies in advertising! :)

A Rational Chain E-mail

My friend Charles composed the following email as a response to a ridiculous christian forward he got call "Untimely Deaths". He thought I might like to share it with you. So here it is, including the angry christian email reply he already got and his reply to that at the end. His version had the classical large fonts, underlines and bold text that inflammatory emails often have, but for the web, I had to strip most of the formatting. If you decide to send this on to your christian friends, feel free to make them more at ease by using insanely large font sizes, underlines, unreadable colors, etc. :P

Do you have the COURAGE to Read this whole E-Mail?????

The TRUTH about UNTIMELY DEATHS!

John Lennon (Singer):
Some years before, during an interview with an American Magazine, he said:
"Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was ok, but his subjects were too simple. Today we are
more famous than Him" (1966).
Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.

Is god lazy? Lennon said he was bigger than Jesus in 1966. Mark Chapman shot him in 1980.
Fourteen years later! Was god too busy all those years assassinating other sinners? Is he a procrastinator?
"Oh yeah, that one blasphemous beatle. I really should smite him."
The next day:
"Crap! I forgot! again!"

And so on, for the next fourteen years!

Conversations With christians - Beth 6 - Realization and Conclusion

While I am a 7th degree black belt atheist, I do have a heart of gold, as I'm sure you know. (just kidding! I'm trying to lighten the mood! Ok, you're right, I'm not kidding, I really do have a heart of gold)

Where was I? Oh, right. When someone comes to me and asks me to have a conversation with them about religion and atheism, I feel it's my responsibility as an atheist to show that a discourse is possible. I want to show religious people that I am indeed a living, breathing ethical atheist. I am rather nice to people, especially if they aren't visiting my home for more than one night. (Then all bets are off) I try to show people how to use reason, logic and facts to find out things for themselves.

Sure, sometimes I can get a bit testy when a christian insults my intelligence or pointedly tries to manipulate the discussion into an argument. I am not a debater, and I can't stand logical fallacies, especially when employed specifically to win unfairly. This is unethical and inexcusable to me.

Of course, people often use logical fallacies because they don't know any better. I will then happily teach a person about the logical fallacy being used, and will then expect that person to refrain from further use of it as we go through our discussions.

Of course, often a person will stubbornly cling to their beliefs and faith and eschew reason, logic and common sense. They will pull out dirty tricks to try to show their beliefs to be the "truth".

This is where we are with Beth. And I have come to a decision. I've written a short note which I am sending to her in a few minutes. Here it is in its entirety:

How Far I've Come!

Last week, I ran some errands with Butch. One of them involved me waiting for him to take a test which he thought was going to be a half hour. It turned out that it was an hour and a half, which was actually good considering they had 3 hours allotted.

I was bored out of my mind after about 12 minutes of sitting in the car, and started to find ways to occupy myself. I got out and wandered around to look at all the different lichens on the trees, but I didn't have enough light to get any decent pictures. I paced , looking at ants, then sat in the car and read my book for awhile, tried not to think about how much Monster energy drink I had consumed on the way there, and let my mind generally wander around. It was excruciating. :P

At one point I noticed that there was a decorative wall that had the top knocked off, around a little flower garden near the front doors (which were locked so I couldn't go in and get rid of the huge amount of Monster now making me miserable). Next to it were lots of bits of broken concrete, but among them, like a shining miracle, was a smooth brown river stone. I picked it up and thought how lucky I was to find something so wonderful in all that chaos.

Miracle: An event that appears inexplicable by the laws of nature and so is held to be supernatural in origin or an act of god.

[caption id="attachment_1867" align="alignleft" width="331" caption="Neece holding the Miracle Rock"][/caption]

Of course, I was just being silly. It was just a misplaced stone from another flower bed, but I was thinking how easily it is to see something that stands out as somehow special or miraculous. I slipped it in my pocket with a smirk. My sacred touch with the divine (NOT!). It reminded me of the way people see patterns in randomness and claim it to be divine, such as the magical stump and the magical bird shit. It's really nothing more than pareidolia.

Back in the car, waiting patiently, I glanced up at the rear view mirror and saw a sticker that I had put there probably 10 years ago. Now, in the 10 years that we've had this car, this is the only sticker I've ever put on it that was not practical. We have the registration stickers, and the oil change one, but no bumper stickers except this one, which I had placed there because it meant so much to me back then. I wanted to see it every time I got in the car. I wanted to be reminded of this message, which was:

The Universe arranges itself to accommodate your picture of reality!

Now, if you read HDC regularly, I'm sure you are aware that this is utter pseudoscience bullshit. It is completely and totally wrong and anyone who holds this as truth is crazy. I was crazy back then. I believed that thoughts were powerful and could help shape the universe. I was wrapped up in a lot of "spiritual" thinking that was completely bogus.

It was easy to selectively enforce those beliefs back then though. To me, this statement was accurate. It never occurred to me how ridiculous and nonsensical it was. I was a believer in "energy" and a conscious universe (even though I was an agnostic).

So as I sat there, I was amazed at how far I've come over the years. I now embrace science, reason, skepticism and logic, which to me, is much more rewarding, and certainly more consistent and satisfying than the desperate beliefs that were based on nothing more substantial than wishful thinking.

Rise of the Gnostic Atheist: A Deconversion Story

Alias: GMNightmare
Name: Jesse
Date: 29 July 2009
Birth: 1988 C.E.
Gender: Male

In my beginning, I was born to both a new mother and new father. My birth was a rather large event to my extended family, for I was the very first great grandchild. As my mother’s family is very close, of course many made an appearance. Near birth, I was blessed and baptized by my great grandfather under Christianity.

Under such pretenses I assume many would suspect that I was raised under a very religious setting. This was luckily not the case. It is worth mentioning that my mother’s ancestors stem from a long line of clergy, and they are all fairly religious… And while my mother is also mildly religious, my family couldn’t seem to find a church that we fit into.

Sure, my family tried—I understand that we were almost sucked into Mormonism. In the end, the situation basically turned out to be a lax kind of religious attitude. There was definitely more church attending during my younger years, but we went less as time progressed. Both my parents worked difficult and long jobs, and Sunday just needed to be an actual day of rest… as well as spending time with their kids.

I vaguely remember somewhere around the age of 10 or so… well, actually quite clearly, a day dining at a restaurant. My parents posed a question, of what we (the kids) thought of hell. My personal response gave the more “good” you where in life the better you would live in heaven... Hell didn’t really exist to me even at this point in my life. My sibling’s response was far cruder; basically amounting to saying a certain relative of ours should go there.

At this point, my parents informed us that our great grandfather had done some “research” into it (Biblical studying hardly amounts to research) and came to the conclusion that hell didn’t really exist as a place. All hell basically amounted to was nothing, you died and that was it. Much like the atheist point of view of death in general actually. This certainly made more sense at the time to me than some torturous place.

What Is Your Favorite Quote or Story From the bible?

What a strange question from an atheist, huh? But I really mean it. Which quote is your favorite, or do you prefer a story from somewhere in the bible? Here's my favorite at the moment:

Psalms 137:9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Look, I made it into a motivational poster so we can all be inspired by the "good book".



Lovely, huh? The text at the top was inspired by my husband Butch, no god involved. I turned it into a t-shirt (and other stuff, of course) too! :)

No god, Know Peace by SirLeeTees

Know god, No Peace; No god, Know Peace. This is the correct wording. :)

So that's the "good book" that gets cherry-picked by ignorant christians every day. Full of barbaric, hateful, delusional and amoral people from 2,000 years ago.

Which story sums up the bible for you? Or which quote says it all? And why?

How Do You Reconcile Belief and Rationality - A Survey

Yesterday I wrote about how different atheists got their stripes, how we all came to the top of the religious mountain by our own path, and how we still all think differently and rationalize in our own ways. I created a survey of 6 questions to start a conversation about this topic. You can take the survey here, or over where I made it at Quibblo. It shouldn't take too long. I really value your input. Comments are also welcome, of course! :)

Quizzes by Quibblo.com

I tried to add a question about superstition but I ran out of time. So feel free to comment on if you're superstitious or not, and/or atheist/religious! Thanks muchly!

Click more for the results:

If there is no god...ohnoes!

Fundamentalists news websites, how I love thee, especially WorldNutDaily. WND never ceases to provide amusement in the form of fundie logic and wacky advertisements. Claiming itself as a 'news source' this beyond right-wing rag makes Fox news look like the Disney Channel. I used to get pissed at the B.S. they sling but I've come to embrace it for what it really is; satirical humor. Some people can take this stuff with a grain of salt and some can't, so steer clear if you're easily aggravated by ignorant bible thumping and rhetorical, fallicious logic. If you can stomach it ignore the 'news' links and head straight for the commentary pages. With scathing insights from the likes of Anne Coulter, Pat Boone, Hal Lindsey and Chuck Norris (yes, that Chuck Norris...sorry kids, he's a hardcore creo-bot) you know you're in for a treat.

In all fairness, there are a small handful of decent commentaries to be found if you really work for it. They have to print a few things that aren't completely batshit crazy if they want to call themselves "credible".

Tonight this little gem caught my eye: If there is no God.

Why I'm An Atheist, Not An Agnostic

Stumbling around the web, I came across a page at lukeprog.com titled The Arrogance of Atheism. I almost moved on, but then I saw the subtitle: Why I'm an atheist, not an agnostic. Luke writes a page that is simple and concise, yet totally makes sense. I contacted him and asked him if I could share it with you. So here it is in its entirety:

The Arrogance of Atheism
Why I’m an atheist, not an agnostic.

When I tell people I’m an atheist, they say, “How can you be so arrogant to think that you know God doesn’t exist? At least say you’re an agnostic and admit that you can’t know for sure one way or the other.”

Atheism! How arrogant!

But is it?

My Name Is Neece And I'm An Atheist

It seems in America today, being an atheist is tantamount to being unpatriotic. We're constantly labeled "militant" by christians. My friend Hess did a blog post about it which I thought made a lot of sense. He defined militant and passionate. I agree with him, I'm a passionate atheist. And I've honestly never met a militant one. I have met angry ones, though. But personally, I get angry too. I think we have a lot to be angry about.

Anyway, I've been quiet about my atheism for 8 years. I keep my mouth shut. I never confront people, I never even mention it to people. It's a personal thing. Or it has been. I'm not ashamed of being godless. I just don't care for confrontation, and I don't like offending people.

But why should I have to hide who I am? It's more acceptable to be gay than atheist now. But maybe if all of us closet heathens came out and showed that we're here and we're.. uh.. not queer necessarily.. uh.. relatively nice ethical people, it won't be so polarized.

Ok, so that's a pipe dream. But since I started Believers Anonymous, and now Heaving Dead Cats, I realize it's time for me to stand up and be myself.

So instead of going by Fruitloop, I'm going to use my name. I'm Neece. And I'm an Atheist. And I'm a Good Person. Deal with it, christians. :D

Even More Skeptical

Recently, I talked about being skeptical. I wanted to show the importance of thinking for yourself, and not taking everything at face value. It's an easy concept to understand, but it can also be easy to slip into gullibility or false reasoning.

In my article yesterday, I made some assumptions and didn't clarify my reasoning, as well as only did some surface work on the research. A perfect example of falling into the exact trap that needs to be avoided when trying to break free of false belief systems!

Lesson learned, and thank you for the excellent comments.

Be Skeptical

My friend sent me a link to the Times Online this morning, to an article titled Red Bull gives you wings - and heart trouble?. My husband drinks Red Bull, and my friend thinks I do too. I don’t actually. I drink Java Monster. It’s delicious and is in a 16 ounce can instead of the paltry 8 ounces you get from Red Bull. So of course I read the article because I don’t want my husband and I to be harming our health unknowingly.

My friend - we’ll call him Sam to protect his identity - said that he always knew this stuff was bad for you. And that was that for him. Case closed. I said I wanted more data. He said, “I don’t.. that stuff’s loaded with enough caffeine to explode an elephant’s heart… no more data needed.”

What? Are you kidding me?

Reason and Polls

I just posted an interesting piece by Sam Harris that I found regarding the truth about atheism. It was written in 2006 for the LA Times and holds some ideas as to how atheists as a general rule view the world, and how religious people view atheists.

Here at Believers Anonymous, I want create a place for folks with a "believing problem" to be able to easily find resources, whether that be an article that concisely talks about atheism, opinions and "testimonies" of other people finding their way, or well, just about anything that might be helpful to you.

This is a journey for me as well, because, while I've been an atheist for a long time, I've come to feel that I need to be a bit more proactive about my lack of faith. Hence the creation of this site, obviously. I'm comfortable in my godlessness, but you might need facts, information and/or support to help you with your beliefs. That information isn't always easy to come by, so it might take awhile.

Anyway, I'm on a Quest for this information. (Any tidbits or suggestions are always welcome, by the way... or help even.. I would love that too!) As I find it, I'll present it to you as best I can. This brings me to a couple small things I want to talk to you about.

The Truth About Atheism

On December 24, 2006, Sam Harris wrote a piece for The Los Angeles Times called 10 Myths - And 10 Truths - About Atheism. I found it just the other day and wanted to share it with you in its entirety:

SEVERAL POLLS indicate that the term “atheism” has acquired such an extraordinary stigma in the United States that being an atheist is now a perfect impediment to a career in politics (in a way that being black, Muslim or homosexual is not). According to a recent Newsweek poll, only 37% of Americans would vote for an otherwise qualified atheist for president.

Atheists are often imagined to be intolerant, immoral, depressed, blind to the beauty of nature and dogmatically closed to evidence of the supernatural.