An Evening With Heathens

Sunday evening my group, Morgantown Atheists, had an evening at the local UU church to talk about heaven and hell around the world throughout time. We had a good turnout, including a Christian and a WVU professor of history, both of whom had never been there before. We all thought it was rather funny that the heater had been turned on in the church sometime before, so it was 99°. At least it was a dry heat. So we were sort of practicing in case we were wrong.

One of our regular members, Jason, brought his wife, Alise, who is a Christian. I actually met Alise in the blogosphere when she wrote that excellent article awhile ago called Surviving a Conversation With An Atheist, about what stereotypical assumptions not to make when you talk to one of us. So it was really neat to meet her in person then go out to dinner afterward with everyone and talk a bit more.

Unfortunately we didn't do much more than scratch the surface of what Alise believes, but my main goal was to make sure she was welcome and that she had an opportunity to at least share what her church teaches. (I should also note, Alise is extremely well spoken and seemed perfectly capable of handling her own!) But sometime over coffee I'd love to know more about what Alise believes herself, which she says is "complicated".

Anyway, she sent me a message this morning saying that she had blogged about her evening out with us heathens and it was so well-written I wanted to share it with you. Here it is, in its entirety:

Heaven and Hell with Atheists
by Alise Write

I've been meaning to attend a meeting of the local atheist group with Jason for a while now, but I've been unable to make it work due to conflicting schedules. When he told me that the group was going to be discussing heaven and hell this week and in light of some of the reading I've been doing recently, I thought it would be interesting to go and see what these folks had to say (the 99 degree temperature in the church where we met was cause for much mirth throughout the evening!).

Spot On!

I found this article the other day that I want to share with you. As an atheist I often get religious people making some pretty big assumptions about me. I'm sure you do too. They are boringly common, tediously repetitive and astoundingly stereotypical. (I freely admit though, I am just as guilty of making assumptions about religious people and people in general. It's a common thing to do)

So this woman, Alise Wright, is married to a man who deconverted. She said she made some pretty big assumptions when he told her he didn't believe in God anymore. So this is her advice to other Christians on dealing with us godless heathens. I think they are really great!

Surviving a Conversation with an Atheist

1. Please don’t assume that they’re evil. ...The idea that because someone doesn’t believe in God means that they will become a murderer is very frustrating, particularly as the wife of one of “those people.” C.S. Lewis suggested that one of the proofs for God is our common morality. To assume that because someone lacks belief in God means that they no longer possess a sense of right and wrong strikes me as a strange way to prove God’s existence.

Her thoughts here, the last sentence especially, are really excellent. I would add that people get their morality from society and their role models. Atheists, humanists and freethinkers discuss and try to improve their ethics as society evolves and matures.

2. Please don’t assume that it’s just a phase. Most atheists who have “deconverted” from a religious background have studied it and other religions thoroughly before choosing not to believe. Painting it as a “phase” denies the seriousness of both their study and their decision. I would certainly not want to have any encounter with God resulting in a closer devotion to my faith called a phase and neither should we use that terminology for those who have left the faith.

Right! Most atheists deconvert after much study of the religion they are leaving, as well as other religions of the world. It's a tough decision to make, and most do not take it lightly.

Some Lighthearted Fun, Kinda

Here are some random images and thoughts. Tomorrow is my local atheist group's Thanksgiving get together and I'll be busy making candied yams and eating tons of great food and hanging out with my fellow heathens. So I wanted to give you something beforehand. It's that time of year, too. What are you grateful for? I will list a few things below.

Here is a better bible, and it's only one page. It can fit on a sticky note:



But first, I require that you go first, God. Follow your own rule and Don't Be a DICK!

And God would reply (predictably), "Do as I say, not as I do."

Which leads me to ask you, if the god of Abraham (we'll assume he's the same one for the Jews, Christians and Muslims) exists as he is represented in his "holy" books, would you worship him?

I wouldn't. No way. What a complete and utter childish bully he is. And fickle!

While the above image is for a bit of humor, I'd say that's a pretty good place to start when putting together your moral code. I rewrote mine awhile ago - Neece's Principles. It's a great exercise that helps you realize what's important to you and why, instead of just doing what we were taught by our religious leaders and parents, who probably got their morals from their churches.

Atheists Deserve A Community Too

The other day I received the following email:

Without criticizing or judging your page in any way, I just would like to ask you, why are you so vocal about your non-beliefs?
Can you see any correlation to the obnoxious holy-rollers that most people dislike?
Perhaps its just a need for self-expression, expressed. I guess it was the "Atheist/Humanist/Skeptical/Freethinker Group" poll that got me. Why do you need help to think freely? Or company? How is it not the antithesis of a prayer group?
I just think perhaps you need balance. I found mine, or the closest I've ever come to it, in the martial arts. Self-defense, but a wonderful integration of the physical and the spiritual, however one defines that, and although its frequently tied to a religion, that can be left to the individual.
I ran across the movie "The Secret" and found your website from a Google search entitled "the secret is bullshit".
Have a good one.
By the way, I am a political conservative and a Christian, although most would argue (if they were interested, which they are not) I am not a practicing one. Just a believer.

These days, when someone tries to subtly insult me, I usually just brush it off and move on. But this email reminded me that maybe I need to speak louder, slower and more clearly.

First, this blog is for atheists and skeptics, not christians and mindless believers. This blog is by a skeptical atheist for people who like to think and use their minds. If you don't like it, no one is making you read it. Go mind your own business elsewhere. I'm not coming into your backyard and whining. I'll thank you to give me the same courtesy.

Christmas Tree Nonsense

My friend AJ sent me this picture and I had to share it with you, after my brain stopped fizzling:



What is the reasoning here? "Let's celebrate the birth of our savior, but let's make sure we focus on his crucifixion at the same time? What would easter look like then? Would you have to mix holiday symbols there too?

Update: Here's the news story that explains the above image.

Of course, the bible mentions the "christmas" tree in the old testament, and they aren't too keen on it:

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

Hoppy Easter, Heathens!

Let's be honest, being an atheist on a religious holiday isn't very much fun. I have to behave myself around family. Half of them are great people, but the other half are fundamentalist bible-thumping hypocrites. It's tedious at the best of moments, torturous at the worst. So here is some easter humor for you:

If the zombie easter bunny attacked you, I'd feel eggstra sad.

Jesus Christ, King of the World, the Coming Resurrection, Sunday March 11, 2pm.... CANCELLED

Me so thorny... LOL!

Thanks for dying Jesus, this candy is AWESOME!

Happy New Year, Heathens!

Here's to an interesting year coming to a close, and the beginning of a fresh new year full of change and promise.



I hope you're all having fun with your celebrations and being safe getting to and from any parties.



This change is really just an arbitrary moment in time. A time to take stock, and a time to celebrate.

Next year will be awesome. I know, that's my optimism speaking, but we'll make it the best year it can be. :)

Thank you for helping me be my best this year. Luvz U guyz!

Aww, damnit, I was aiming for posting at exactly midnight. But my awesome husband just called to wish me a Happy New Year. Damn, I love that guy. Ok, thank you again for being such great readers and commenters. Suggestions always welcome, as are guest posters. :)

Since I'm already late, how about one more lolcat? Let's see if I can find a really good one. (actually the optimist pessimist is one of my favs at the moment :P )

HAPPY NEW YEAR! It's 2009!

Webster's Dictionary is Biased Towards Christianity

Words and how you use them are very important. The pen IS mightier than the sword in many respects. For example, 99.999% of atheists are stamped with the militant label wrongly. People hear that word and then wrongly associate atheists with the idea that most of us are fighting and being aggressive against believers. With that one word, they've labeled us as waging a "war" against them.

This is ludicrous and terribly backwards. By labeling us, they have started the "holy war" against atheists. Not us. In my 39 years, I've never met a militant atheist. But I have seen and dealt with many militant, close-minded, hateful, fundamentalist religious folks.

So words are very important.

Hess was looking up synonyms for atheist on Dictionary.com for our new project (as you can see, we settled on Heaving Dead Cats) and pointed out something rather irritating.

Atheism, Politics and Friends

I’m reading a book that is so good, so interesting, that I’ve highlighted almost every sentence. It’s a gold mine of ideas and information, a real treat to read.

If you looked at my book list, you’ll notice that I haven’t read all the “traditional” books that all other atheists seem to love. That’s not to say that I won’t, but I became an atheist when most of those books didn’t exist. Once I reached the point where I was ready to shed the oppressive mantle of religion, I was so relieved and felt so free, I didn’t have a need to read anything else on the subject for a long time.
Since I let go of god - all gods actually - a lot of books have finally come out about atheism. At the time, I didn’t even notice them. It was nice that it was being talked about, but I was happily god-free and in no need of conversion anymore.

Birth of a Religion, Yummier Than Before!

How does a religion come into being? Well, in this day and age, maybe by instant message between two friends, late at night, while surfing the internet for interesting stuff…

Here's the recipe for Hess and Neece's (aka Fruitloop) Religion:

serves: Humanity

2: godless heathens

1: internets (can substitute 1 intertoobs, 1 webbernets or 1 ripe interwebs)

1: news article detailing wacky fundamentalist training camp

Chat and let simmer for 3-4 hours (cooking times vary in high altitudes)

Let cool then cut into squares.

Hessenroots: " TheCall Institute exists to equip, disciple and commission an emerging generation of radical Nazirites to prepare the way of the Lord by embracing a lifestyle of prayer and fasting that is energized by intimacy with Jesus. " http://www.thecall.com/

Fruitloop: oh jesus. That’s rather scary.

Hessenroots: yeah, no pun taken.

Fruitloop: :P pun intended

Hessenroots: "International House of Prayer University" abbreviates itself IHOP! http://www.ihop.org/

Fruitloop: ROFL!!!!

Hessenroots: I do love me some pancakes

Fruitloop: I love their crepes. I sing hallelujah every time I go in there :P

Hessenroots: anyway, sorry...this is just too amusing/scary for me to stop reading. The name of their campus - " IHOP Missions Base"

Fruitloop: oh jeez

Hessenroots: strategic pancake operations in a secret underground bunker!

Fruitloop: it's the french toast underground!

Hessenroots: it's the yummiest revolution ever!